General 1.6d vs 2.0i EX auto AWD auto transmission

Discussion in '4th Generation (2013-2017)' started by PanayiotisPal, Tuesday 27th Sep, 2016.

  1. PanayiotisPal Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

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    Why does the 2.0i EX auto AWD still comes with 5 gear auto transmission whereas the 1.6EX auto AWD comes with the new 9 gear auto transmission??? :Smile:

    Honda wishes to sell just the 1.6d version???
     
    Last edited: Tuesday 27th Sep, 2016
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  2. Racy Jace Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Probably something to do with the diesels short power band?
     
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  3. PanayiotisPal Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

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    no fuel/CO2 savings I guess for the 2.0i petrol engine.
     
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  4. FirstHonda Premium Member Club Supporter

    I'd much rather have the proven reliability of a torque converter 5 speed auto rather than the new (German sourced?) 9 Speed box.

    In my experience more ratios are there for little more than to 'fool' the official emissions tests.

    In real world driving I find this type of new gearbox has too many ratios, they often 'hunt' between them causing a less smooth drive - and in the case of the latest 9 Speed in the I-DTEC CR-V, 9th gear doesn't even come into play until 80mph I understand - above the legal speed limit in the UK.
     
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  5. PanayiotisPal Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

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    it seems then that Honda, in the future, has to introduce other types of fuel / CO2 saving on the 2.0i, like maybe
    1. start stop on automatic gearbox (bosch)
    2. electric motor (hybrid engines)
    3. braking regeneration with either 2 above or with electric double layer capacitor and DC/DC convertor (like mazdas) for car electricity needs in order to save on the alternator fuel consumption, or drive the electric motor.
    4. Natural Gas use in CR-Vs.
     
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  6. legend-ary Moderator Staff Team

    United Kingdom Legend The Big Smoke
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    Or just switch to 1.6 turbo and not do any of this faffing around.

    All these options are fine in theory but CR-V isn't really cheap to begin with so these will only make it more expensive and push it into the path of the German softmobiles which will kill it just like Accord.
     
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  7. PanayiotisPal Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

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    This is what I was saying too but in a different way. Will Honda just sell the 1.6 diesel like nissan does e.g. x-trail when they introduce the 5th Generation CR-V??? 2.0i petrol does not make sense any more unless they add natural gas (or hybrid technology) on it which will give 30-50% fuel savings similar to the 1.6d engine CO2 emissions/ fuel economy.
     
    Last edited: Tuesday 27th Sep, 2016
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  8. 155695 Premium Member Club Supporter

    England Keith Essex
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    I'm afraid 2.0i petrol makes a lot of sense to me. I wouldn't touch another diesel with a barge pole. 10 years ago they made a lot of sense but that was before the Eco brigade got hold of them and added all those wonderful extras, including DMFs, EGRs, EGR coolers, DPFs and of course not forgetting the latest SCR "technology", all of which make them totally impractical for anything less than circa 10,000 miles per year. Anybody using a modern diesel for the sort of mileage I do (about 4K per year) are building up real problems which are very expensive to correct. All that is of course without mentioning the ever increasing public and regulatory wave of feeling against them, paricularly in cities.

    I've said it before on here but I honestly believe that the writing is on the wall for small diesel engines in PMCs.

    I am also a fan of the much maligned torque converter auto boxes which by now are pretty much bomb proof. Yes I know they "eat power" and decrease MPG but you can't beat them for smoothness and reliability. As for DSGs, don't get me started.

    Rant over and I'll now return to the 70s and 80s with my steel helmet on.

    Keith
     
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  9. PanayiotisPal Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

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    I agree that steel helmet is good but carbon helmet is lighter. DSG is cr-p. I prefer the 5 auto of CR-V or even the 4gear of my other auto car. DSG needs clutch discs every 5 years. Expensive indeed. Also I don't like CVTs since their chain needs replacement too, an expensive procedure.I am not against technology but I am against diesel too. Maybe combining other technologies with 2.0i petrol can produce a good result in terms of performance, durability, and fuel consumption.
     
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  10. Lisbon Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Based on 14k miles and a year of driving the most recent 1.6 I-DTEC 9 speed auto, my experience of this auto is:

    It doesn't 'hunt' for gears but always tries to stay within the 1,400 - 1,800 rev range unless pushed hard
    The engine has the power, but the auto box delivers this to the wheels in a very relaxed fashion
    The paddle shift is of little practical use as it can't be relied apon to hold the gear selected for any useful period of time

    Overall, this gearbox is suited to "chauffeur" driving style and is very smooth and sedate when driven accordingly. Whether this is what buyers who have paid significantly more for the increased power and 4WD capability is debatable.
     
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  11. Racy Jace Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    @Lisbon so what's it like when over taking or joining a motorway from a slip road? I do miss my diesel for this. I'm sure a supercharged LPG conversion would fix this though!
     
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  12. FirstHonda Premium Member Club Supporter

    :whathesaid:

    :salute:
     
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  13. PanayiotisPal Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

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    1. 2.0i facelift was not improved compared to pre-facelift. Same speed, same auto, same torque, same acceleration. Only the shell has changed.

    2. Comparing 1.6D over 2.0i 1.6D wins in all aspects (figures for AWD auto)

    Engine power: 1.6=160 2.0=155
    Speed 1.6=197 2.0=182
    Acceleration 0-100 1.6=10.4 2.0=12.3
    combined CO2 1,6=139 2.0=179
    Fuel consumption l/100km 1.6=5.3 2.0=7.7

    3. I am expecting that Honda can narrow down the differences in terms of CO2 and fuel consumption as first priority, especially to include the 9 speed automatic rather than the 5 speed one if it proves to be fuel efficient and quality product.

    4. Why do car manufacturers support the oil companies??? why not using alternative energy in cars like P.V thin film on roofs or even the one Mazda uses which seems very promising and simple?? It is time for these technologies to be applied

    technology_env_i-eloop_en_2nd-row_img.ts.1602150248478130.

    Recapture kinetic energy when car decelerates (accelerator released)
    energy that previously went to waste. When the accelerator is released, a high-performance alternator driven by the rotation of the tires generates electricity which is transferred to the capacitor.
    Improved engine efficiency (when accelerating)
    The alternator is switched off when the driver steps on the accelerator and the capacitor supplies electricity to the car's electronic components. The engine is relieved from the task of producing electricity resulting in improved fuel economy.
     
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  14. Lisbon Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    @Racy Jace it's Jeckyll & Hyde; no doubt the power is there, but whatever it is about the transmission/drivetrain, it fails to deliver this to the wheels with any real punch. I trust the car to haul a heavy load up a hill, but not to overtake/join carriageway without plenty of leeway.

    As far as MPG/CO2 improvements over previous models are concerned, real world figures for my vehicle at the last calculation point are 38.7mpg and 193 gCO2/km after 13,123 miles and Honda UK Technical has described this performance as fairly normal. Given this includes regular trips to continental Europe, I would compare these figures against the quoted combined cycle figures of 53.3mpg and 139 gCO2/km.
     
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  15. PanayiotisPal Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

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    For better engine response / engine punch, I would add for both petrol and diesel, K&N air filter (same type as original but re-washable). For petrol I would also add platinum (and or iridium) spark plugs from Bosch/NGK (Bosch Platinum Spark plugs and K&N filter I ordered them from USA). I have both installed on my 1.9l petrol engine 15 years old car, which I am not ready to let go yet, whose engine response / punch has improved considerably. Note - You loose warranty. don't install in new cars. Only after warranty expires and only if you feel confident by using non Honda original Parts.

    Maybe this fits: 33-2477 K&N AIR FILTER HONDA CR-V 2.4 2013 SUV | eBay (UK seller)

    33-2477.
     
    Last edited: Wednesday 28th Sep, 2016
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  16. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Regards the alternator on Hondas. The new generation is very reactive to battery condition and steps down in 0.5 volt increments (I will have to double check the exact voltage I can't remember everything!) there is a battery sensor as part of the negative pole clamp. A whole wiring sub system is involved to measure the dc to dc condition. This is in the main needed for idle stop condition, and will determine if there is battery deterioration and stop idle stop from working. In the same vein the alternator will only charge when needed and This causes problems for non genuine tow bar 12v wire set ups. Most tow bar fitters use a smart charge relay so that the vehicle only provides power to the fridge when the alternator is charging. Most of the time a new Honda alternator will charge at below 13v. If you didn't know this you could quite easily say the alternator isn't charging properly. Put a load on the engine i.e. Headlights and the alternator ramps up. Just because other manufacturers rave about what to them is a significant advance doesn't mean Honda aren't in touch. Honda rarely shout about there technology in the media. The media say Honda are behind other manufacturers like ford and tesla when it comes to electric and hybrid. But Honda know hydrogen is the future and what's the point in making pointless technology that doesn't justify itself? They of course will be producing more cars that are electric hybrid just like they did first with the insight. But no doubt better than what's currently available.
     
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  17. PanayiotisPal Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

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    We all know that nowadays most families buy SUVs. We have seen a huge market, at least in Cyprus we do, and the SUV demand is high. I have 3 kids, and we all fit in the CR-V, including luggage space. i.e.. when going on holidays. As an upgrade I would like to purchase a more fuel efficient SUV probably still 2.0i, 9 auto box if durable, also being electric hybrid or with natural gas technology. Hydrogen will take another decade before it becomes available I guess. This means 2 generation CR-Vs and 2 facelift models :Smile: Natural gas will be extracted soon from Cyprus waters thus it will be cheap to buy compared to petrol. Thus I believe natural gas is a good alternative, that does not cost as much but improves significantly fuel economy and CO2 figures. I don't know the natural gas vs electric motor advantages and disadvantages, but at least one of them should be made available, as people /car clients become more environmental conscious and EU at least pressures governments to reduce CO2 emissions, and recycle garbage, thus targets are set which we all should help/abide by new legislation and take part in order to achieve those targets. (It has become a way of living - save the environment). Lower CO2 lower annual road tax, less air pollution, healthier life.
     
    Last edited: Wednesday 28th Sep, 2016
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  18. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    i don't know of any major manufacturers producing cars that are LPG and that won't change. Unless you plan on having your car converted your at a loss with that one. Natural gas like any fossil fuel is a resource we need to start reducing the use of
     
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  19. PanayiotisPal Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

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    Natural gas emits the less out of all fossil fuels. In a Scandinavian country which produces natural gas, all cars are converted or manufactured with this technology due to lower CO2 emissions and usage of their countrys natural wealth / energy source. Natural gas is better than petrol/gasoline in CO2 emissions. So it should play an important role in CO2 savings. However as I said an electric motor with braking regeneration energy hybrid engine could be a better option in bringing down the CO2 emissions and increase fuel economy. Since there will be no plans for Natural gas technology in Honda, then something in the line of mazdas brake energy regeneration, and electric motor combination would be the best hybrid technology, since alternators uses not only braking but also acceleration pedal off position to charge the battery/capacitor thus more electricity, quicker battery charge, more green Km less fuel consumption.

    Pounds of CO2 emitted per million British thermal units (Btu) of energy for various fuels:
    Coal (anthracite) 228.6
    Coal (bituminous) 205.7
    Coal (lignite) 215.4
    Coal (subbituminous) 214.3
    Diesel fuel and heating oil 161.3
    Gasoline 157.2
    Propane 139.0
    Natural gas117.0
     
    Last edited: Wednesday 28th Sep, 2016
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  20. PanayiotisPal Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    Cyprus Panos Paliometocho
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    Beefy,
    It is like comparing two folding bikes, one has one suspension at the rear with 16 inch tyres, but the other one comes with both front and rear suspensions with 20 inch tyres. One can be used on soft off-road too but the one with 16inch wheels and just rear springs, cannot. The same with Honda CR-V. If some important aspects of client needs are not satisfied Honda looses a niche market.. Some people / prospective customers, need SUVs for light off road (so higher ground clearance, better rear torque, higher profile tyres), some may need better CO2 emissions and better fuel consumption (hybrid technology), and some may need it for snow locations, thus better rear torque capability, lockers at the front or rear, active or passive torque vectoring, and higher ground clearance, and some a combination of all. As I understand, passive torque vectoring is easy to implement, as it is manipulated/simulated by braking (thus software controlled).

    If Honda wants to satisfy more customers, and increase their sales, more clients needs have to be satisfied, if not first year maybe starting from the second???

    My avatar photo is now 20" folding bike with both front and rear suspension. It is a Dunlop bike with an English flag, made in UK. Best folding bike I have/had (better than 16" Brompton but less portable). It was also made with electric motor. (imagine CR-V with a brake regeneration system and a battery operated electric motor which I could upgrade with a PV on the roof for additional kms (Honda should make α provision for this - a socket on the roof for connecting solar panels). I guess this was made in order to cover client needs/demand. No one is the same and everybody has different views about SUVs and characteristics, technology, based on their needs. Needs can be satisfied by small mods, if one feels happy about them after warranty expires,, without spending a fortune. Fuel savings and CO2 reduction is a dificult task/project to apply as a mod., though as you said lpg/natural gas is a good solution but an expensive one, which is also sort of unsafe if not done properly. I prefer small mods like coil springs, tyre profile upgrade, air filter upgrade and better performance spark plugs (all after warranty expires) but none have to do with CO2 and fuel consumption upgrade, since the only option I have is adding natural gas, or maybe thin film PV on the roof which will charge a battery which will operate the HHO generator (with a PWM), to produce enough Hydrogen to feed in the air duct going to the engine. NEVER SEEN THIS WITH A PV :Smile:. Just an idea.

    dunlop electric. IMG_20160928_163006.

    I think this is the best example I could think of to give you my opinion not just for CO2 emissions and fuel economy, but also on other aspects in general which I have expressed in the past. :Smile:
     
    Last edited: Thursday 29th Sep, 2016
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