Introductions 2003 CR-V Dream or nightmare?

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself' started by peteryorkshire, Tuesday 24th Feb, 2015.

  1. peteryorkshire Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    England Peter Preston
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    Hi all and apologies up front if I cover old ground. I recently bought an '03 petrol sport for the well documented 4 wheel drive benefits at this time of year. Very clean and well priced and only 85k so after a reasonable test drive I bought it. Daily driver is a Merc 320 so it obviously it felt very different and not very powerful but I initially put this down to my driving style and possibly not letting the engine rev out. However after more miles I think I may have more of a problem, the car is very reluctant to rev, even in the intermediate gears, on the flat in 3rd at 2500 revs foot hard down and progress is very slow and uninspiring (almost feels like the brakes are holding it back ) up to 4500- 4750 when the engine management light starts to flicker, back off and it goes out???
    I see some posts about old/dirty oil clogging the VVT mechanism but I can feel the step at about 2250 presumably the v-tec kicking in
    I spoke to the dealer and although he is sympathetic and assures me he can sort it he has no idea what may be causing it, I could do to see him armed with some idea of the problem and what remedial work may be required

    I work away and will not get the car back to him until the weekend, minimal use in the meantime. Can anyone give me any guidance?
     
  2. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    I would say that your timing chain is stretched from what you are describing.
     
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  3. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    Not much more I can add to @Beefy's professional opinion there.

    Get them to check the timing chain, if it's a stretched chain you'd want them to put a new chain, tensioner and perhaps new guides as well for good measure.
     
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  4. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    just wants the rocker cover removing and engine timing up. looking at the timing marks on the cam sprockets will prove that it is stretched. it will prob be about a tooth or so out. vtcotc valves are common for blocking too and produce similar faults but more so stalling,cutting out and generaly poor running.
     
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  5. John Dickson Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Hello Peter :welcome: to HK

    Sorry we're meeting when you have a problem but I hope the dealer sorts it for you. :goodluck:
     
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  6. peteryorkshire Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    England Peter Preston
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    Thanks for the reply Beefy, is this as serious as it sounds? would you expect the chain to have stretched to this extent at just 85K ? I presume there is a slipper tensioner to take up the normal tolerance, do I need to press him for a replacement chain (and tensioner)?
     
  7. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    Condition of the oil will tell you a lot as well. Generally if it oil maintenance has been neglected a quick peek into the rocker cover and you'll see the oil baked on everywhere. Poor oil maintenance is generally what leads to these problems.

    I'll let this pictures show you the differences between a well looked after engine with regular quality oil and one that is not
    Rocker_covers.
     
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  8. peteryorkshire Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    England Peter Preston
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    Hmm, we will see, it has a full service history but the oil is very dark, thanks for the replies I can now make an informed approach to the dealer.

    thanks again.
    Peter
     
  9. nsxer Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    Unfortunately you cannot rely on full service history when it comes to oil changes. Our old 06 1.8 I-VTEC Civic was in a service plan with local dealer and it transpired that no oil was ever changed and turned out oil level was dangerously low. That's my experience. Fortunately sp had ended then I carried out my own services with a trusted independent.

    Hope you get sorted. Good diagnosis here. Best of luck and hope you get to enjoy your CR-V more soon
     
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  10. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    it does sound serious @peteryorkshire but in essence its a fairly easy job to do for a Honda dealer. I've replace a few already. repeating what speedy has said, oil quality plays a massive part. age and mileage can be somewhat irrelevant.
     
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  11. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    She sure can be bought back to full health. I've fixed a fair few of these engines myself. Check the links in my signature.

    They come back to life nicely once some TLC and new parts are thrown at them.
     
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  12. peteryorkshire Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    England Peter Preston
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    Update 2/3/15
    Car back to Dealer over the weekend, he plugged in a diagnostic tool while I was there and it showed up Cyl 1 missfire and Mutiple Cylinder missfires, I didn't see the codes before they were cleared, car was dropped off with mechanic and then a call this morning to say that they had replaced the sparkplugs and it seems to drive fine (around town). I have suggested he keep the car and run it for a couple of days to ensure that it is running properly but I am not convinced, even his own ex Honda contact had pointed to the camchain when the symptoms were described.

    Is there any way of establishing the condition of the camchain without lifting the rocker cover?
     
  13. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

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    Nope, well nothing that can I think of.

    Lifting the cover is only a 10 minute task though.
     
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  14. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    of course the spark plugs cured it lol. that's the trouble with a garage that doesn't know these cars. its a 10 min job to just whip off the rocker cover and time it up! its child's play. both cams say UP and there fore should be pointing up and there's markings to line up left right and centre literally. you can't go wrong.
     
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  15. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    It is child's play.
    Spend 10 mins taking the cover off.
    Line one cam up against it's markings, see if the other cam is also lined up against it's markings, if the other came is not lined up, hey presto stretched chain.
    You have answered the big question in 11 minutes flat.

    Of course a garage that doesn't know Honda engines will fob you off and not know how to check for a stretched chain. You need to go to somewhere that knows Honda engines.
     
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  16. peteryorkshire Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    England Peter Preston
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    Thanks guys, I left the car with him and won't be able to check anything before the weekend but the advice is greatly appreciated.
     
  17. Galgo Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Welcome to the site Peter. I hope you get your engine problems sorted out soon.
     
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  18. Nels Moderator Staff Team

    Welcome to HK @peteryorkshire :welcome:

    Many people call me a fuss pot (or similar :Whistle:). One of the things I am most fussy about is my car. There are very few people in the world that I will allow to do any work her. @SpeedyGee and @Beefy are in this select group. Not only are they experts, they are (nearly :teasing:) as fussy as me.
    You can, in the long run, save yourself a lot of time and money following their advice.

    Hope you get it sorted soon and then you'll be are able to enjoy your Honda.:Niceone:
     
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  19. peteryorkshire Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    England Peter Preston
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    First and foremost, a huge thank you to the members who replied and advised me, a true reflection of a well run and supported forum must be the quality of people who contribute.

    In the end my persistence, supported by your information has resulted in the Dealer refunding the purchase price and taking the car back, he put up a reasonable defence and claimed to have had the car inspected by a Honda trained mechanic and pronounced fit and not requiring a cam chain but as soon as I set out on a test drive I knew it was still not right, after warming it up and trying to stretch its legs a little I found that it still would not rev cleanly and anything over 4000 revs brought the engine warning light on. To be fair to him, he accepted defeat at that point rather than causing things to get too heavy and I would urge anyone else in a similar position to take heart and press your case calmly and reasonably and don,t give up.
    So my time with the CR-V was brief but suffiicient to keep it well up on my list of possible replacements, the immediate need for a foul weather vehicle has almost passed but thoughts now turn to towing bike trailers, camping trips and other uses. Thanks again
     
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