2004 Honda Civic Type-S - CCTV Camera Discussion

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by Nighthawk, Saturday 4th Oct, 2014.

  1. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Make sure the camera only covers your private property, also make sure it has time/date hardcoded onto the footage to make it admissable in court if you ever have to use it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Monday 6th Oct, 2014
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  2. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    Will do. Thanks. next door neighbour is a builder by trade and said he'd sort out the fitting for us, so I think he might be keen to get coverage of his garden too, so we may go for 2 cameras.
     
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  3. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Sounds good, as irritating as it might sound, there are quite strict laws so make sure you cover yourself with them. If you film, and subsequently record, anything which you do not control or have ownership over, you have to comply with Data Protection Laws. So, filming the postman putting a letter through your neighbours front door breaches this as he has been recorded without his knowledge. If he was to kick the daylights out of the door, your evidence would more than likely be inadmissable as it was obtained outside of the legal acts which allow footage to be used as evidence. If your neighbour is happy to have your neighbour covering his back yard, get written permission from him. This is to cover yourself in case things head south in 6 months time and you guys don't get along anymore for example. If things did go wrong with your neighbour, he could say that you have breached his human rights by recording his property and breaching his right to privacy. (I appreciate it sounds far fetched but some people do change their tunes really quickly as I am sure you know regardless what their best intentions may have been initially). If you do wish to record outside of your property (so covering your driveway and onto the road), you need to get permission from a local authority commissioner (can't remember their exact title).
    When you go into tesco or wherever, you always see a sign somewhere saying you are on CCTV. This is so that, as they are recording innocent members of the public, they have to notify you that you are being recorded and then by you entering that store, it is assumed that you accept those conditions. If you then steal something, they can use that against you. If they didnt have those signs, they could not use that footage against you.

    You can also buy cameras which automatically zoom in when they detect movement - to be honest, CCTV which is just a random blur of pixels as it is too far away is as useful as a potato.
     
    Last edited: Saturday 4th Oct, 2014
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  4. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    @Nighthawk does putting a sign up that reads something like "this property is protected/covered by CCTV" cover you from any evidence being thrown out as being admissible ?
     
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  5. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    providing you have adhered to the other data protection laws, then it is more than likely to remain admissable yes mate. It is a bit of a minefield if I am honest but if you have blatently disregarded some of the regulations, they won't even entertain you. If you can prove that you have at least made as much of an effort as is reasonable, then you could argue it out. Ultimately, acceptance of evidence will come down to the court on the day but if you make your evidence as tight as possible, it obviously stands a better chance.

    If you ran a B&B for example, then you would need a sign. Members of the public entering your address when you have no need to record them. Same rules apply there as walking into Tesco. I am pretty sure that you are not walking into Tesco to steal stuff but you are still being recorded for evidential purposes in case you do. Covering your car and driveway in your private property is a bit different as anyone entering that area is then trespassing on private property. Tesco, whilst private property, has a public right of access, meaning anyone can walk in there for no reason whatsoever. Your driveway is private, so it is slightly different if that makes sense.

    So do you need to put a sign on your driveway to protect your car, no, you don't, as you are recording your own property.
     
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  6. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    That's confused me more (doesn't take much to confuse me) LOL

    If I'm only recording on my own property, if someone enters my property, they are either "friend" or "foe". If they are "friend" then theres no issue, the recorded data will get overwritten at some point and probably without even ever been viewed.

    If it's foe and they are upto no good then surely I should have rights to allow me to record them ?
     
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  7. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    yup spot on mate

    Your driveway is private property and there is no "public right of way" onto it. Anyone entering your driveway without your permission is trespassing. Any person knows they don't have the right to enter your driveway, just as you wouldn't go walking up your neighbours driveway, look at their car and go sunbathe in their back garden. Whilst there is nothing physically stopping you (possibly), you know that you do not have the assumed permission to go walking into someone elses property. If you have a wall or gates on your driveway, it makes you even safer still when defining your property. A postman isnt trespassing as he has an "assumed right of access" in order to do his job. If he walked onto your driveway, sees your car window open and then decides to pinch something off the seat, that assumed right is removed as it is assumed that you would not have given him permission to enter your property to steal.

    Tesco, whilst is private property, has what is called "public right of way". It is assumed that you can enter there without express permission as you believe you have a right to enter that property (i.e - to go shopping). If you are banned from Tesco, in this example, and then go back into the store, you are trespassing. If you then stole something whilst trespassing, it becomes burglary by definition. Another example, you park your car in Tesco car park, that car park is private property, but you have assumed right of access as it is open to the public. Your driveway isnt....

    Any clearer?
     
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  8. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    That wasn't my point of confusion. I understand that there is no "public right of way" on my private property.

    My point was that I should be able to have the right to record people entering my property, especially if they are upto no good.
     
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  9. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Ahh right, my bad. Simple answer then, yes, you can.
     
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  10. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    Thanks for the legal advice. The issue I would then have is that my car is parked on the road, which is public property. The cameras would record the front garden (private property), as well as the public road. Would I have to put up a sign informing the public they are being recorded ? Our one neighbour does has CCTV (that only covers his garden) but the police that were here yesterday asked to see his footage. Why would they ask for that if they can;t use it as evidence ?
     
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  11. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    Just had a look at the ICO website, and saw this page , which shows the text I quoted below. Not 100% comfortable with the "unlikely to breach the Data Protection Act", as I'd prefer something a bit more certain :Grin:. Still, I'll get hte landlord to contact the police and see what they say, and also get in writing from the neighbours they don't have an issue with the CCTV, and also ensure that the footage is available to them if they request it.

    Q: Can I, or my neighbour, use CCTV?

    If the cameras are installed on residential property and are for personal domestic use, they are unlikely to breach the Data Protection Act. This is because the use of CCTV cameras for domestic purposes, for example, protecting a home from burglary, is exempt from the data protection principles, even if the camera overlooks the street or other areas near the house. If you are concerned about the use of domestic CCTV, it may be worth contacting your local police. However, if you or your neighbour are using CCTV for business purposes, you'll need to comply with the Act. Read about a business' obligations with CCTV.
     
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  12. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Interesting - thats certainly not what I knew about it but I stand to be corrected if I am wrong. Recording innocent members of the public without their permission or knowledge breaches their right to privacy. If I am wrong on this, I would really like to know :Smile:


    "The main laws surrounding the use of CCTV are contained within the Data Protection Act 1998 but these do not cover domestic residences. It is perfectly legal to install CCTV to protect your property against intruders and trespassers, subject to any Planning and other considerations.
    The Human Rights Act covers our right to privacy. The right to respect for private and family life means that your CCTV cameras should be sited so that they only observe activity on your property and not your neighbours.
    If you wish to film just outside your property onto the public realm (anti social behaviour / crime), you must seek the advice of the Information Commissioner ’s Office
    .
    Otherwise this could amount to harassment and potentially give rise to prosecution under the Public Order Act / Protection from Harassment Act"

    http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/tvp_domestic__advice_leaflet.pdf

    A quick google found that ^^
     
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  13. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    This is one thing I can speak with some authority about, there's a few landmark cases citing that you waive any rights to privacy in public and that it's a reasonable expectation you may be surveyed (that's kinda part of the definition of "public" after all). Councils and authorities have to abide by the same rules so it's got to be the same as regular Joe (they are just registered companies after all with no special dispensation).

    I can remember watching a YouTube clip where 2 police officers approach a man's driveway because he's filming the "public road" and requests that he stops filming both that and them, long story short - the man sticks his grounds about his rights, the officers are adamant, and the sergeant is eventually called confirming the man's rights to document the officers interactions and what goes on around his property.

    I looked into this all a while back due to trying to figure out my rights of photography in public spaces, this covers most points which I believe will also be pertinent to video.
     
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  14. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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  15. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    @DeviateDefiant, spot on mate. That man was well within his rights to record the entire event. This is what I mean by the laws are pretty complicated and messy. Police expect to be filmed in public being in the position that they are in and there is nothing at all wrong with anyone taking footage of police, ambulance or members of the public. The complications arise when that video is being obtained purely to serve as evidence of a criminal offence. If you see something, whip your camera out, record it and that helps provide evidence of an offence, the courts will likely accept it and recognise that it was exceptional circumstances. If you are just recording for the sake of it in case there is any criminal activity, and are recording people going about their daily business without their knowledge, then thats where it becomes complicated.

    Anyway, this has gotten way off topic - hows your car @RogerH69?
     
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  16. Chunkylover53 Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    @RogerH69

    I install CCTV systems for local businesses as a summer job - I have only installed a few for local houses but in all cases most decent cameras have an inbuilt OSD so can block off certain areas. In both cases I have gone for 720p HD cameras and have asked neighbours on either side re whether they care about their area being captured. In both cases they don't care, and if anything, they appreciate it.

    That said - I am a student and I do it because I enjoy it + the margins are excellent. So it's just my insight. Take it as you wish.
     
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