Accord/7th Gen 2006 Accord Tourer Tailgate Issue

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by SimonT, Saturday 5th Mar, 2016.

  1. SimonT New Member Getting Started

    Hi all,
    I have an issue with my electric tailgate, which does seem to be fairly common on here, as follows:

    I closed to boot, but the lock wouldn't engage, boot just bounced up and down. I operated the lock using the manual slider in the boot to close the lock, but now I have the PTG fault on the dashboard. Having read through the excellent "Honda Accord Tourer Tailgate Issues And Troubleshooting" thread I purchased a new lock mechanism. Having fitted it I reset the ECU (disconnected the negative from the battery with the boot open, reconnected the battery, turned on the ignition and closed the boot). All seemed good as the PTG fault didn't appear on the dashboard. When I pressed the button on the key fob to open the boot it beeped once, began to open, but then stopped half way up and beeped three times, and then just sat there and the PTG fault appeared on the dashboard. I closed the boot and now the PTG fault remains even if I reset the ECU (as above).

    Does anyone have any thoughts on what the issue might be, I have cleaned all around the inside of the boot lid, or do I need to bite the bullet and go to Honda?

    Thanks in advance

    Simon
     
  2. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    @jimjams is very knowledgeable in this area. Hopefully he'll be along soon to help
     
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  3. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    I'm not the only one who's knowledgeable on this, I think that @Ichiban and @SpeedyGee also know a lot about this.

    Anyway, the description in #1 is definitely weird.

    I think I did see a fault similar to it on "the other forum", and that person also traced the fault to the locking mechanism (aka closer unit), but since the OP has replaced that, I can only assume that the replacement mechanism might also be faulty, or might be fitted incorrectly.

    The other suspects are the usual
    1. slipping clutch in the motor mechanism (although the tailgate can usually re-close itself when this is the cause)
    2. faulty tailgate motor or motor sensor
    3. weak struts
    4. wiring fault (the wires in the loom are known to wear out, where the tailgate loom is, at the top entry point)
    5. faulty ECU

    I would rank them in that order.

    To check 1 and 2 and 3, give the tailgate a helping hand while it is lifting (and also when it starts to close). If that always works, then you have narrowed the fault. Weak struts will be obvious if the tailgate then struggles to stay up (once you have helped it to fully-open)

    If "helping" it to open doesn't work, then I'd suspect 4 or 5, or as I say, maybe the replacement "closer unit" itself (aka locking mechanism).
    - - - Updated - - -


    if (like me) you like circuit diagrams ....
    click on any diagram and this forum software is so good that you will then get a nice full-size "slide show"

    complete circuit diagram of tailgate controller


    0007_zps6655959d.


    limit switches (top right of complete diagram)
    0007b_zpsd7603369.



    closer unit (bottom right of complete diagram)

    0007a_zps7a3e099a.



    main drive section (bottom left of complete diagram)

    0007c_zpsfa5441f9.


    fuses to the tailgate controller (top left of complete diagram)

    0007d_zpsf89b76d1.
     
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  4. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    See, I said he was knowledgeable!
     
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  5. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    I was working feverishly for hours on that LOL

    [not really]
     
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  6. Heckler Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    If you're anything like me... when I ran the MX6 owners club and forums... I had a few docs saved for those 'always asked' questions and simply copied and pasted from the doc into the forum reply... it was either a link to a guide already on the forums, or a quick bit of txt detailing the answer.

    Saved me countless hours of typing and retyping the same answers... and newbies often get annoyed if some one just tells them to search without any kind of context.
     
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  7. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Not a bad idea keeping some of the stuff in docs, in fact the software on this forum allows a suite of pics with text to be pasted directly into a post. That's what I did re the circuit diagrams, though I copied them (with the text) straight from "somewhere else", the text and pics are/were mine anyway :Wink:

    Indeed it's a bit patronising to tell a newbie to search, especially when a forum has started to get disorganised without any care for where threads are being placed (not referring to this one btw)
     
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  8. SimonT New Member Getting Started

    Thanks a lot to both of you for your helpful advice, and for taking the time to respond to me.

    I will continue looking to see if I can find a broken wire, if not I fear it is a trip to Honda.

    As a thought is it possible to change the boot to be manual (some re-wiring required), and forget about the power function? It is a 56 plate car, done 152k miles, so it isn't worth a huge amount of money, just annoying having a decent size estate car with no boot!
     
  9. tonygw Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    does suggest a wiring fault, its not uncommon for the wires to break due to stress fractures around the hinge area, the fact that it started to work and then stopped half way suggest a signal or power was lost during the opening stage.
    Which suggest a broken wire that happens during boot opening.. that's where I would start the search.
     
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  10. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Does it not even open manually from the outside i.e. pulling the latch from the outside, does anything happen at all ?

    If yes, then can you manually lift it all the way up ?

    If no, then it is almost certainly a broken wire, and a trip to Honda could cost you nearly as much as the car is worth (and in my own experience they don't know anything about these tailgates anyway).

    Regarding a "change the boot to manual" it should be possible to open it manually anyway, although there is an electrically powered mechanism in the latch mechanism (aka "closer unit"), if you have the old "closer unit" and some ingenuity, you might find a way to simplify it.
     
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  11. SimonT New Member Getting Started

    hi Jim jams,

    The boot is completely dead when I lift the handle, and it is locked shut. the PTG fault code is on the dashboard so I am under the impression the computer refuses to let the lock open to prevent fingers getting trapped.
    It sounds like a trip to an auto electrician might be a good place to start, I thought Honda might just plug in a computer read the fault codes and know where to look (silly me!!)

    Simon
     
  12. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Hi Simon

    The reason that the tailgate ECU refuses to let the lock open is because it either doesn't know the status of the lock, or it simply cannot get the motor in the lock to start i.e. the circuit in the complete circuit diagram is no longer as shown in the circuit diagram

    I have a Honda Diagnostic System (aka "HDS", mine is one of the Chinese clones from ebay) and although it can read codes from the tailgate ECU, the tailgate codes are as much use as a chocolate teapot when it comes to fault finding. However, there is a very good tailgate functional test in the HDS menu, that shows the status of individual latches, example screenshots below


    TAILGATE IN CLOSED POSITION
    05data_list_closed.


    TAILGATE IN CLOSED POSITION WITH HANDLE LIFTED
    05data_list_closed_handle_lifted.


    TAILGATE IN CLOSED POSITION WITH HANDLE RELEASED
    05data_list_closed_handle_released.
    TAILGATE IN FULLY OPEN POSITION
    06data_list_open.


    TAILGATE IN FULLY OPEN POSITION WITH RHS LOWER SENSOR PRESSED
    06data_list_open_rhs_sensor.


    TAILGATE CLOSING AFTER CLOSE BUTTON PRESSED
    07data_list_closing.


    So using the tailgate functional test in the HDS a Honda technician ought to be able to find out what is wrong, but since the dealers charge £100 per hour I agree that your money would be better spent using a good auto electrician and the circuit diagrams in this thread.

    Jim
    - - - Updated - - -
    btw here are the positions of all the "bits and pieces" in the tailgate



    7thgentourertailagtecorecomponents1.


    7thgentourertailagtecorecomponentstwo2.


    PS I see that Melksham is near Bristol, which is about 150 miles from me, otherwise I'd offer to connect my HDS
     
    Last edited: Monday 7th Mar, 2016
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  13. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    One other fault that I forgot

    I went to open the tailgate on my car using the handle/latch this morning, and the handle/latch didn't move the whole way and got stuck in the half-way position. This has happened before, and i can open the tailgate using the keyfob instead. The handle/latch can be freed by just jiggling it and fiddling around with it (easy to do with tailgate itself in either the up or down position).

    But, there are cases when the handle/latch gets stuck in this position, and it won't even open using the keyfob.

    Check that the handle/latch is not sticking.
     
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  14. SimonT New Member Getting Started

    Hi Jim Jams,
    Sorry for the silence, I have been on holiday, and trying to get some sense from the local auto electrician.
    Anyway seemed that there was going to be a big bill, just to look and no guarantee of success, so Saturday morning my dad and I took the plunge and took the boot apart. And guess what, two broken wires.
    Mended the wires and all works now (added bonus is my rear window demister also works again now).

    A massive thanks for all your advice and information, you certainly gave us the confidence to have a go.
    Simon
     
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  15. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    good work, tbh there isn't a better way to find out :Wink:
     
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  16. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

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