General 2007 2.0 Honda Accord Hesitation and jerkyness

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Davebabs, Wednesday 5th Oct, 2016.

  1. Davebabs Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    David Ireland
    30
    12
    Hi guys,
    Looking for a bit of advice on an issue I'm having with my accord.

    It's a 2007 2.0L Type-S with 240,000 klms on it, completely stock, the car is serviced by me every 10,000 klms (6000 mls) using only Honda OEM parts and everything is done as per the maintenance schedule.

    So I've had the car for about 7 years and never had any issues except for an inner drive shaft vibration which was fixed by replacing the innner joint.
    Anyway recently the car is quite jumpy when cold which improves a bit when it heats up but I've noticed that it hesitates in first gear when taking off, the revs drop a good bit and more power is required, I've also noticed that if I keep a constant velocity in any gear and accelerate normally the car jerks/hesitates but not as bad as when it's cold.
    So I've done a few things to try an rectify the issue, first of all there's no MIL error, car starts fine wether hot or cold, fuel economy seems normal, performance doesn't seem to be an issue either once I put the pedal down and I don't notice the hesitation/jerking when flooring the pedal but once I lift off can feel a bit of hesitation/jerking again, idle seems good and it doesn't feel like its running rough.

    So I've changed the fuel filter, oil, oil filter, spark plugs, air filter, gearbox oil, cleaned the intake, EGR plate but not the EGR valve itself as I'm having difficulty getting the nuts off, but will get it done shortly, I've also taken of the MAP and IAT sensors and cleaned with electronic parts cleaner. Intake and EGR plate were in really good condition for a car of that mileage. Also changed the coolant and power steering fluid and bled both systems but the issue still remains.

    Now here's where I get a bit confused, I done the idle re-learn process after the intake clean and the issue seemed to be resolved but after a driving for a bit the hesitation returned, I left it for a day or two and done the idle re-learn process again and I swear the car was driving great again for a few miles but the hesitation returned....I may just be imagining this.

    I'm convinced it's a air/fuel mixture issue, so as a last resort I started unplugging sensors and test driving to see what happens..unplugging the IAT sensor seemed to make no difference only causing a MIL fault, unplugged the MAP sensor, this cause a MIL fault but really affected performance and drivability of the car, it won't go past 3000 RPM, I unplugged the engine coolant temperature sensor which also cause a MIL fault and seemed to go into a default air/fuel mixture setting, so some reason the car drove like a dream, no hesitation, smooth acceleration and as soon as I plugged it back in again the hesitation returned, I haven't tried unplugging the LAF sensor yet but I'm expecting the same result as unplugging the engine coolant temperature sensor that the car goes into a default air/fuel mixture ratio. I'm pretty sure the the LAF doesn't affect air/fuel mixture until it heats up so I'm still none the wiser what is causing the hesitation/jerking issue. I've ordered an ODBII connector for the laptop and should have it in the next day or two, just want to see some data from the sensors. Only thing that has taken my eye lately is that the car seems to reach normal operating very quickly on the cluster gauge, it can reach the normal temp in less than a minute of driving, it was always quick to heat up but not sure if it was always this quick, it's not overheating. I've no problem in replacing sensors if they need to be replaced but not if there's nothing wrong with them as the oxygen and MAP sensors are outrageously expensive about €300 each for the O2 sensors and €450+ for the MAP. Also don't want to bring it to the dealer as I'll reckon they'll screw me on the diagnostic charge. I'll wait for the ODBII cable and might replace the engine coolant sensor as that's much cheaper.

    Anybody any other suggestions before I start replacing sensors, will clean the EGR value first though.

    Cheers
    Dave
     
    Loading...
  2. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    14,999
    5,595
    4
    Wait until you have your OBD reader and then you can monitor the sensor values.

    A duff engine coolant sensor can cause bad A/F mixture, so check the value of this out when you get the OBD reader.
     
    Loading...
  3. Davebabs Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    David Ireland
    30
    12
    Thanks SpeedyGee, I'm hoping it's the Engine Coolant as its relatively easy to change and cheap, the car recently went for an NCT (same as MOT in the U.K.) lambda readings were spot on as per the defined limits, however I noticed on the report that the engine temperature was 36 Celsius, does that seems a bit cool for warm engine, I looked at the previous test 2 years ago and it was 89 degrees, weird how the engine temp gauge always shows the same temperature, would it fluctuate if there was a problem with the sensor or does it have a wide range.
     
    Loading...
  4. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,182
    6,414
    516
    Is this is a 2007 face lift model or a pre face lift model?
     
    Loading...
  5. Davebabs Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    David Ireland
    30
    12
    The facelift model
     
    Loading...
  6. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,182
    6,414
    516
    ok that issue you are facing was a prefacelift issue and requires an ECU update and front shocks to remove the torques bashing which caused the jerk.
     
    Loading...
  7. Davebabs Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    David Ireland
    30
    12
    So it wouldn't apply to my model correct, I done the idle re-learn again this morning and it all seems to be good again for the moment.....it's quite frustrating as I'm expecting to start jerking again :Frown:
    - - - Updated - - -
    I must also add that when the hesitation issue is present that feels likes its also surging after the hesitation.
     
    Loading...
  8. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,182
    6,414
    516
    Loading...
  9. Davebabs Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    David Ireland
    30
    12
    Yeah, had a look it thanks, I'd consider anything at this stage but the car doesn't go into limp mode, so I'll take note of it and use it as a last resort, my car has never burned oil and have never had to add oil between services + I check it weekly.

    As for the idle re-learn process, I got a few instructions of the internet, basically I'd disconnect the battery for about 1 minute or 2 then reconnect, turn off everything in the car....lights, radio, heater etc.....then turn on the ignition on for 2 seconds (KOEO), start the engine and rev to 3000 RPM until the coolant fan kicks in, once fan kicks I let the car idle for 5 minutes uninterrupted (no radio, heater etc) and added on extra time if the fan came on in that 5 minutes.
    - - - Updated - - -
    Yeah, done the EGR plate..it was pretty clean, I didn't do the EGR value as I had trouble trying to get it off.....just need to find the correct tools. I'll try and get it done the weekend.
     
    Loading...
  10. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    14,999
    5,595
    4
    That sounds highly dubious. Engine will reach 36 degrees in seconds of starting.
     
    Loading...
  11. Mr Honda Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Ireland Dublin
    72
    29
    You've changed the coolant which could explain the temp difference between tests.

    EP3 owner that I've read about with hesitation issues often replace the TPS sensor, but IIRC Honda only supply this with the throttle body so an aftermarket is usually sourced.
     
    Loading...
  12. Davebabs Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    David Ireland
    30
    12
    NCT test was before coolant change, coolant change was done to eliminate any possible issues plus was coming close change limit, can't see what I would class as a TPS on the throttle body, there is a fairly big connector that looks like it controls the open and closing of the throttle. So again I'm not sure it's also looks pretty expensive.
     
    Loading...
  13. Mr Honda Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Ireland Dublin
    72
    29
    Throttle Position Sensor looks like this.... s-l1000.
     
    Loading...
  14. Davebabs Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    David Ireland
    30
    12
    Nothing on the throttle body that looks like that, only that big connector that has 4 or 5 wires, it might be built into that big connector, the big connector is wired into some kind of accelerator sensor up by the bulk head, which in turn then has an accelerator cable coming out of it and going in the cabin to the accelerator pedal. Would a drive by wire have a TPS sensor or is it called something else.
     
    Loading...
  15. Mr Honda Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Ireland Dublin
    72
    29
    throttlepossensor.

    Loos like the TPS is on that.... I always thought the TPS was on throttle bodies on k series....
     
    Loading...
  16. Davebabs Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    David Ireland
    30
    12
    Probably on the K20A, mines the updated K20Z, again I'll add it to the list of possible causes, I think I can actually test the sensor ranges in the OBDII software that I downloaded.
     
    Loading...
  17. Mr Honda Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Ireland Dublin
    72
    29
    Yeah mines k20z too, but I've never had reason to look for it.....
     
    Loading...
  18. Davebabs Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    David Ireland
    30
    12
    So the ODBII cable, I hooked it up to the car and the laptop, with the engine off the engine coolant temperature reads -40 degrees C, when I start the car the temperature starts to fluctuate all over the place going from a range of 10 to 200 degrees every few seconds, the erratic behaviour seems to settle a bit as the car gets warmer and tends to hover around the 40 degree, so it's looking like the ECT sensor is the fault.....however if I plug the ECT sensor out it still reads the temperature, I googled to see if there was a second ECT sensor and found a few threads pointing to a sensor at the bottom of the radiator, I unplugged this sensor as well but the Engine Coolant Sensor in the ODB software is still reading a temperature....any Ideas...where is this temperature reading coming from.

    measure 2. came and I hooked to up to the car,
     
    Loading...
  19. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,182
    6,414
    516
    According to that screen shot the engine is not running ? there is no RPM's so how do you expect the engine coolant temperature to rise?

    117979_measure_2.