General Accord rear brakes - Honda UK warranty claim

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nelf, Thursday 22nd Jan, 2015.

  1. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
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    Hi all,

    I have an issue with my car and want opinions.

    A week ago I took my car on to the Honda dealer I bought it from in march as I could hear the rear brakes squeaking when reversing and the upon inspection the discs were badly (and unevenly) worn. They looked at it and said it needed new disks and pads, I said that at my service in August the brake wear was minimal and I thought maybe the pistons or the calipers were at fault, I asked them to take them apart while I waited to inspect - The mechanic was very good and did this without issue.

    He then came out and said that both rear calipers were in fact seized solid and that this had caused the disks and pads to wear excessively and quickly. He then did his best to free up the system so that it wouldn't be an issue to drive with. They agreed to put in a claim for new disks, pads and calipers and of coarse the fitting of these parts. As it was a Saturday they couldn't contact the warranty team to get it approved there and then and as I live 50 miles from the dealer, I had to return home with the car. The car has since not been squeaking.

    I then called yesterday to see where the claim had got to and they said it had been rejected as it was a high value claim, HUK need more evidence to show why the 2 calipers had failed. And therein lies the problem...

    As the system seams to be working OK now, I believe there may be no evidence apart from a set of worn rear pads and discs. Apparently they need the car for a couple of days to strip it down and take photos of the issue (if it still exists) - To make it easier for me they are passing the whole case to my local dealer (Sheffield) who will be in touch today to arrange for me to take the care in for the work.

    My car has a full main dealer history as I thought this would mean that any warranty issue would be easy to justify.

    The dealer has been very good, its the warranty approval team I have an issue with.

    I'm concerned on many levels:
    • If there is no remaining evidence, I have no case
    • The warranty in my opinion should cover any defective part of the car
    • I paid for an approved used car at more than £2k over a normal dealer car so that is anything went wrong, it will be covered
    • I paid extra for the "included" warranty which in itself is a joke, I've bought a lot of cars and the years free warranty is always free
    • I can't afford to replace the rear brakes and potentially the calipers when the fault returns
    • I don't want to be driving a car with less than perfect safety system
    • Should I have bought a Lexus, I hear they treat their customers well...

    Has anyone else had any similar situations or could advise me on this?

    Many thanks

    Neil
     
  2. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    There are others that are much better placed and rehearsed in this than I am @Pottermus @Ichiban however my thoughts are this:

    They will have a record of the fact that your car has been in there for an assessment as to the noises it was making and I am pretty sure that the mechanic would need to record on their system somewhere that they have found an issue so I would suggest you are covered there. The dealership needs to honour any warranty claim as seizing calipers is not part of normal wear and tear.

    The calipers will still be an issue and still need to be addressed and as Honda have already identified this issue, and recorded it, then they are aware it is an issue. I agree fully about needing a car with working brakes and should you have bought a Lexus? They may treat their customers well (I have no idea if they do or not), but I would question why they need to keep treating their customers well if they are always taking their cars back to them. The dealer seems to have been decent with you so far and have not led you astray. Trust them a little bit and see what they are going to do to help you. They should hopefully fight the warranty company on your behalf.

    A little while ago, I diagnosed a seized caliper on a family members MX5, took it through a warranty company and all they needed was a mechanic to confirm that there was an issue and as soon as that was confirmed, they paid out.

    I wouldn't worry too much but there are others here who are better placed to advise you better than I am.
     
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  3. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
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    Hi Nighthawk, thanks for the reply.

    Just one thing to note for clarification; its Honda UK's warranty dept that has rejected it, as it is "Honda approved used car warranty", not a third party one.

    Its like they don't want to believe their own staff...

    I didn't get a call yesterday from Sheffield Honda so I called them this morning and apparently they had called Sheffield but Sheffield asked them to ask me to call Sheffield...Ironically I had to call them back to know this...

    Anyway, I rang Sheffield and they now have the case and have booked it in for an inspection next week, however they seamed to think the calipers should get approved, but the disks and pads may not, as these are a "wearable item" - I responded nicely stating that the only reason why the wearable items have worn is because non wearable items had failed, they appreciated this but it would be down to Honda UK.

    The dealers have been great to be honest and I just hope that Honda UK see common sense. Its annoying as I bought the car direct from Honda as a result of my father having purchased several new cars from them and having nothing but praise for them as a dealer and Honda products. I am a little disappointing to say the least that this matter has dragged on, when this is what I would expect from a non-main-dealer warranty that I could have got for a lot less and paid less for the car.

    I suppose if it was a niggle or a slight defect that didn't affect the drive I would be less concerned but I'm current driving a car with less than perfect brakes, and they won't be sorted until they choose to comply - very annoying.

    Does anyone know how much a replacement set of rear disks and pads would cost if the warranty doesn't cover it? As I will be taking it up with the dealer who sold me the car, insisting they pick up the tab as a gesture of good will.

    Hopefully faith will be restored in the brand, but I feel unhappy and that's not what the old Honda slogan promised...

    Cheers
     
  4. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Give HH a call for a price on the replacement discs and pads if you are wishing to remain OEM. Shouldnt be too bad I wouldn't have thought.

    I agree with standing your ground and fighting them. Worse case scenario, replacing the lot yourself shouldnt be too expensive, but as you say, they are already indicating they will cover the replacement caliper. That MX5 I diagnosed, the disc was warped from the excessive heat and part of the brake hose rubber coating where it connected to the caliper was showing signs of melting and they replaced the whole lot without question under safety grounds so hopefully, HUK should do the same thing out of decency seeing it is their car.

    Keep us updated.
     
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  5. FirstHonda Premium Member Club Supporter

    I can totally understand your frustration @Nelf.

    On the positive side, at least the dealers are doing their stuff. My guess is that Honda UK just have to follow a process before approving, but having spent the money to get a "proper" Honda warranty, I would have expected it to be far simpler - and not leave the customer feeling like they have to fight. Having also read the @Ichiban saga over his new Jazz, I do hope that Honda aren't losing the customer service plot.

    My advice (for what it's worth) is to continue doing what you are doing. Stay calm, be polite, but also be firm about your expectations. Keep the dealers engaged on your side, too.

    Really hope it does all work out for you.

    Should also add that I bought an extra year of Honda warranty for my Accord (4th year), so I really want to hear that they see you right in case I ever need to use mine!
     
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  6. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
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    Thanks for the comments :Smile:

    I agree, the frustration thing is whilst I appreciate that they are going through a process (of not spending without strong reason to), I'm the one with driving a potentially unsafe car with inefficient brakes, not them. It really should be a no-brainer for them.

    I will try and stay positive and keep the dealers on-side and hopefully it will all come good.

    @FirstHonda - I would expect your new car warranty (even a 4th year extension) to be easy to deal with, but then again I would also expect a used car warranty on a car that has only ever seen main dealers, also easy to claim on...

    I will keep this updated as I imagine a few people want to know how reliable a system the approved used car warranty is and whether its worth buying from a dealer or going independent.
     
    FirstHonda likes this.
  7. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
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    Well, it didnt go well.

    Took the car into Sheffield Honda, who have been excelent I might add.

    However they confirmed that one caliper has seized solid and is beyond repair, the other side has freed up OK.

    However they said that the car is dangerously unsafe to drive, and invited me to look at the rear brakes which had next to no pad left at all on one side...

    Bearing in mind I drove back from the selling dealers only a week ago with my pregnent wife over a snow covered peak district, im shocked they let me take it!

    So I had no option but to stump up £850 for new rear disks and pads plus 1 new caliper.

    They then suggested (after taking the seized piston appart to find rust on it) that its unlikely the warranty will pay out as the part hasnt "failed" merlely worn to the point it has stopped functioning, however they are putting in the claim to see if it goes through.

    So all in all Im very put off the whole Honda ownership thing and deeply sad that having bought the car thinking a warranty covers stuff, only to find out that unless its a definite failiure of a part its not covered. They went on to say that the only thing that is guaranteed to be covered is an electrical component with no moving parts as this either works or doesnt, it won't wear.

    RIght now I feel I should have bought a bl00dy Mondeo, at the least the parts are dirt cheap if it goes wrong.

    I think it will be my last honda as I had the same problem on my previous Civic, which I luckily caught before it took the pads and disks out and was fixed with a £40 caliper strip and clean - Obviously Honda don't do brakes very well...
     
  8. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

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    Sorry to hear about your troubles with the brakes and the fact that you have been put off Honda ownership.

    Car ownership can b a lottery at times, personally speaking having owned many Hondas over the years and done many many miles in them (my current for example 80K over 4 years), I've hardly had to spend much at all on any of them.
     
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  9. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    @Nelf, just want to add my two cents here. When I first read the couple of posts, I was really surprised to see that the dealer was entertaining the thought of a warranty claim for brake parts, naturally they're consumables and no warranty tends to cover them.

    I'm going to assume here we're talking about no maintenance on those rear brakes since it came from the factory, you'll find that quite a lot of people here strip and clean their brake components once a year - not sure what year your car is, but to seize solid? I've just come across this on a heavily abused 15 year old Type-R - there it could be expected. Brakes require maintenance, you'd be surprised how many people stick copper grease on sliders and are surprised when their calipers become noisy and then seize down the line, naturally, it burns off over time.

    Calipers are not cheap from dealers. I'd heavily dispute the fact there was no saving your rear calipers, Honda sell rebuild kits for this very purpose. Your £850 bill could have easily been a £150-200 bill on the parts side, that's genuine rear discs, pads and a caliper rebuild kit from HH. After spending the last weekend with @Nighthawk repairing 15 year old seized calipers, I'd honestly say the dealer has played on ignorance here a little bit - I cannot see how a warranty claim would go through, and I cannot see how the caliper couldn't be saved.

    I don't have all the facts, so take what I say with a pinch of salt - but £850 to fix one caliper, and replace some discs and pads is insanity. I just did my pads/discs all round including rebuilt calipers where necessary, and hoses, for less than £300 - not all genuine parts, but even with I'd still come in at half the cost.
     
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  10. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    @Nelf - sorry to hear about your experience, like @SpeedyGee I have never really had any issues with my car, nor with my brakes. It is interesting for them to state that a siezed caliper is not a failure - I would be curious to see what their definition of a failure is.
     
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  11. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

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    Let's wait and see how Honda warranty department respond before draw any conclusions.
     
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  12. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    @Nelf - have you contacted HUK yourself? When my exhaust manifold went on mine, common problem on the CTDI's when the car was only a few years old, my local dealer wasnt too bothered, after I called HUK and moaned at them stating they are knowingly putting my family at risk with an issue they have documented etc etc, they authorised the work even though the car was over the mileage limit - you have nothing to lose by contacting them as well as saying the price was extortionate. I even got a free courtesy car as a result of my grumbling.
     
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  13. FirstHonda Premium Member Club Supporter

    ^^Agree with this, and with @Nighthawk - worth contacting HUK if the claim is rejected to discuss further, express your disappointment with Honda etc.

    My perspective on this, is that if the car was sold as an "Approved" used Honda, with a warranty, I'd expect everything to be checked thoroughly. Bear in mind that Honda advertise their used car warranty with the line,

    "...rigorous car checking and preparation."

    If you did 20k miles in the year and the car needed new brake pads, I wouldn't expect that to be covered. Things like the condition of the calipers though - I wouldn't have thought that their condition could degrade that much in less than 12 months (not that I'm mechanically minded, I accept!!), which to me would indicate that there was likely an underlying fault at the time of sale.
     
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  14. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    @Nelf - can you note which year your Accord is here? If it's an early 8th Generation then I do believe a claim won't go through, however if it's just a few years old then the rear calipers failing is definitely premature - they should last a few years out of the factory without further maintenance!
     
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  15. AccordCU2 Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    I believe Nelf have 2008 2.2 diesel ES GT
    Hope Honda can do something for you.
    They are pretty good and I had no problems when dealing with HUK directly.
     
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  16. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
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    Hi all,

    Thanks you so much for the input, all points taken on board. :Smile:

    I completely understand that brakes not being covered under normal situations (much like a clutch isn't covered) , but my opinion is that they have only worn so badly (and so quickly) to the point where they are now dangerous because a component "stopped functioning" (which in my book is a failed component but hey...)

    I've done approximately 5k miles since they serviced it so they either missed it, or this issue has presented itself since August.

    I was shown photos of the disassembled caliper by Sheffield Honda and he explained what has happened - Basically the seal that is on the piston in the caliper has been torn at some point in the past (maybe years ago), allowing water/moisture into the caliper piston over time, building up rust slowly until the point where it seized solid. The point at which I knew anything was up (squeaking in reverse), I took it straight in to get looked at.

    Interested to hear I may have been screwed on price, I'm usually very canny but just in the moment believed the dealer that this was the only option.

    He did say that rear pads and disks alone were £270 fitted, and the new caliper is £500 + fitting (£80 by my calculations) - If someone has proof that these prices are over the odds please let me know! Obviously prices have to be dealer fit using Honda parts.

    Sheffield Honda have been really good to be honest, lent me a loan car for free until the work is done, called the original dealer to see if they would contribute to the cost and been very supportive (given that they have no obligation)

    The current situation is the car is in for the work, I will pay for it ij full and then have to try and claim whatever I can through the original dealer, in the meantime Sheffield Honda are putting the claim in again.

    I hope the original sale dealer will do the right thing and contribute if HUK rejects it again, if not I will be going direct to HUK.

    Given that my father has bought 3 brand new Civics in the last 10 years from them, and the fact that I have chosen to travel to them for servicing and any work rather than using my local branch, should be a convincing argument to keep me sweet.

    Thanks again.
     
  17. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    To be honest mate, if it was my car, I wouldn't wait for your local dealer to submit the claim again, I would contact HUK anyway, explain the situation to them, tell them that you want a resolution - you/family members have been a loyal customer and you find what was told to you absolutely appalling and want them to pick up the tab and refund you. At the end of the day, its their reputation on hand, no way you could have messed up any calipers within 5k, and the last thing HUK want at the moment is any bad press.

    Id call them today mate if it were my car, your local dealer can carry on submitting their claim, but your phone call won't do any damage. Just keep your calm etc.

    0845 200 8000
     
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  18. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

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    If the seal is torn, seals done tear themselves, it may have been done accidentally whilst someone was servicing the brakes, so that can't really constitute a warranty claim.

    But as @Nighthawk says, you need to speak to HUK about it.
     
    Last edited: Thursday 29th Jan, 2015
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  19. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
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    Thanks guys, I think you are right, I will call them today.
     
  20. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    No I don't believe you were screwed on price, it's bang-on for retail prices from a Honda dealer - it's just that in itself is extremely pricey, HH could have saved a bit on pads/discs nonetheless. My point was that a caliper rebuild was far cheaper than getting a new-one, if it wasn't infact rescuable because of the rust damage inside the camber, then I'd have brought a second-hand one for less than £100. It's the price of that caliper which had me, they are normally that expensive, but in my eyes it's just not worth paying that price.

    I agree with the others you should ring Honda UK directly, but I'd still be pretty sure they're going to claim the seal is wear and tear - the technicians not catching it during servicing (if that was the case) is down the dealership, not Honda UK themselves so doesn't affect a warranty claim as such as @SpeedyGee points out.

    I do sincerely hope it gets put through on warranty, though I'm rather cynical where brakes are concerned. The one big ace up your sleeve is the fact that you have kept her serviced and maintained with genuine parts with dealerships taking care of her each step of the way.
     
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