Suspension, Steering and Brakes Accord Type-R (ATR) brakes on an FR-V?

Discussion in '1st Generation (2004-2011)' started by DieselPower, Sunday 2nd Mar, 2014.

  1. DieselPower Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    This must sound unusual I'm sure, but does anyone know if the ATR caliper swap will work on a FR-V I-CTDI? Everything i've read relates to the accord.

    The standard brakes are below an acceptable level for me and I would like reasonable priced alternatives. I serviced the brakes and slider pins recently and the existing pads/discs look in good nick. A big brake kit would be well over my budget but you can pick up ATR calipers ~£200 on ebay, they all need refurbishing but that isn't too expensive.

    I could go the route of better pads with more bite but I think the fat FR-V needs something better than the standard 282mm discs.

    Any thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Sunday 2nd Mar, 2014
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  2. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Really good question bud, I can give you all the technical information you require to achieve this ..which I can get it in a a matter of minutes.However there are a few caveats to this change,this is based on my personal experiences and FACTS!
    I had a 2.0 Tourer and still have a 2.4 Tourer both have the ATR upgrades the 2.0 got second hand calipers and carriers which were professional clean and refurbished by me and the 2.4 got brand new calipers and carriers .Both of the these cars have had the upgrades 4 year ago but the issues I have faced with the second hand one is NOT worth the hassle not matter how cheap you can get them on ebay or scrap yard..WHY you ask?

    The carrier on the second hand one have thread pitches for the knuckle bolts re-tapped for 18mm bolts , the lateral sideways play on the sliders ,rusted and pitted sliders.. due to this the caliper tug depending on the wear it unevenly wear the pads and discs some will create more wear on the inside pad some on the outside. So you think new piston new seal will be a good thing ..well think again the carrier in my opinion is the biggest weak link in this set up... So this 2.0 Tourer has chewed 2 disc and 3 sets of pads in 60 K miles and guess what changed another set of pads on the 2.0 tourer today and it ...swear swear not worth sweet FA. I should have bought new.

    On the other hand My 2.4 Tourer with 74 K miles and the original CH1 pads is still going strong and is NOW due a disc and pad change .. you can see which works best.

    Now if you are not a perfectionist and don't mind all this you get the 200 quid cheap calipers.:Blink:
     
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  3. DieselPower Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Thanks for the feedback Ichiban. That's the kind of technical detail that I was after! Everything might look like it fits "perfect" but you are only as strong as your weakest link, which in your case was the re-tapping.

    I wouldn't attempt something like this unless someone like yourself had already done it or gave it a technical thumbs up.
     
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  4. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Re-tapping does not affect the carrier at all its the side-play on the sliders on worn carriers fella which no matter what you do can't be fixed worn metal in a small cavity can't be repaired .. You cannot get carrier on their own they come with new calipers.I will dig up the info for you fella.
     
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  5. DieselPower Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Ahhhhh I understand now. Well that makes sense, some of these calipers are 14 years old!
     
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  6. DieselPower Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

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  7. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    I've never had issue with my CH1 brakes, still going strong on the CH1 pads that they came with.
     
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  8. DieselPower Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Maybe Ichiban was unlucky....it is a risk with decade+ old parts I suppose.

    If only I could get new caliper carriers for ATR I would just buy the caliper new from ecp. That's assuming the carrier mates with the FR-V ok.
     
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  9. DieselPower Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Just found out that the accord I-CTDI has 300mm discs whereas my heavier FR-V has 282mm.....WHAT is that all about??

    Would I get noticeable improvement with a accord I-CTDI single piston caliper?...if it fits that is.
     
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  10. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    I must have just been lucky. CH1s do suffer from the issue CJ has described.
     
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  11. garf8v Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Hi DesielPower, I too am not fully happy with the braking on my FR-V. It does stop, but the pedal initially hardens then seems to go soft and travel further downwards. I changed all four discs and pads(all Honda Genuine Parts) as although low miles, the discs were rusty. I expected the brake pedal to become firmer and not to sink, but it seems worse. I did wonder if I had reversed a seal in the master cylinder when I pushed the pistons back, but at over £200 I can't yet afford to test that theory. I had thought about replacing the hoses with HEL brake lines to see of that improves things as it worked on my MG. Does this sound like the brakes on yours?
     
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  12. Chunkylover53 Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    How long have you had the genuine new discs + pads on your car and did you flush the brake system?

    Reason I ask is because for the first week of getting new discs + pads I actually thought the brakes were worse with the symptoms you described. Then after the second or third week (covered around 500 mi by now) I realised the full power of the braking system. The only other car I've driven for a considerable period of time has been a 2010 C-Class which has ridiculously sensitive yet effective brakes - the 1999 Accord compared is very close when it comes to effectiveness though sensitivity is still somewhat lacking though I prefer it.
     
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  13. garf8v Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Hi there, I did them in Jul 2013, I did query this in Sept 2013(diesel brake pedal thread in the FR-V section) but it still hasn't improved. The dealer was supposed to have changed the fluid, but I had it checked and changed again by a recommended workshop, where I was allowed to watch it being done. When I changed the pads/discs I used a syringe to drain the fluid from the master cylinder reservoir. I have done maybe 2k since then.
     
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  14. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    GarfV8, check the vacuum lines to the brake servo, as well as it being a possible master cylinder issue it could be a possible brake servo issue.

    Are you sure all the air was bleed out of the system after the fluid flush ?
     
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  15. garf8v Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    SpeedyGee, yes I am sure that no air entered the system when the workshop bled the brake system, but I don't know how the Honda garage did it, I assume they have the proper equipment, although this is where the mechanic didn't use a torque wrench until I asked why not. You say vacuum lines, is there more than one? Its raining at the minute and its about bathtime for the children so I won't get to look till tomorrow. I am not losing fluid, which is what made me think it may be the mastercylinder, but I didn't think about the servo, perhaps it is losing pressure, although the pedal shouldn't continue to travel. Thanks for everyones input.
     
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