General Advise needed on engine performance upgrade

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by patrick737, Monday 20th Jul, 2015.

  1. patrick737 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Hi all,

    I need some advise, because I have searched for hours on the net but find different answers.
    I have a 2007 Accord CL7 2.0 petrol sport.

    How can I really upgrade my engine performance like horsepower and torque?
    Can I install a turbo, flash my ECU etc...
    Is this possible at all with my engine??
    What are the costs?
    Any people around who have already done this?

    Hope to hear from you!

    Gr. Patrick
     
  2. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    I know it's not the answer you want to hear, but you best route to better performance is another engine. You can squeeze yourself 20-30hp or so by replacing the I/H/E and getting a reflash in place from @littlebo - but at the costs you're talking about you for the lot you might as well shove a K24A3 in and get 40hp out of the gate, or one of the K20 Type-R engines for 50-70hp. The thing is no matter what you do, you'd get far better gains from a better engine.

    You'll find almost all K-Series performance parts are either based around the K20 Type-R engines, the K24 or are just cross-compatible between them. The run-of-the-mill K20 engines don't have as many options available at all.

    A friend of mine in Germany has swapped a K24A3 into his CL7, he's currently at around 275hp.
     
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  3. patrick737 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Well thanks for your honest answer!:Smile:
    I was afraid of this.
    I f I do choose to swap a engine it think it will be a very expensive project right?
     
  4. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

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    What ? and you haven't got said friend to sign up on HK and post up the Project ? I'm disappointed ! :cockywhistle:
     
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  5. patrick737 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Well a detailed report of that project would be nice!:dribble:
     
  6. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    That's Marco @SpeedyGee, you'll see him active in our Facebook group time to time. Great guy, he was the one I was recently trying to troubleshoot FlashPro map issues with

    It depends on the engine used, with some set-ups you'll be able to get away with using some of your existing ancillaries (alternator, A/C condensor, P/S pump etc.) which will help cutdown on costs. It's not something I've looked into greatly.

    If you were to go with a K24A3 block you're heavily supported by the CL9 platform already where parts are readily available in Europe, if you were to go with a K20 Type-R engine (K20A/K20A2/K20Z4) you'd be supported by the CL7 Euro-R platform which parts can come in quite pricey for. There's not too many major differences between them at least.

    I don't know if there's any differences in the wiring loom, if there's not, you should be able to get away with just the engine and ECU, something you can budget for probably a little over 1000 euros plus labour. But then you'll likely need things like an exhaust header, you'd want to upgrade your intake manifold etc. You could leave yourself with a 230-250hp Accord for around 2500 euros all-in I'd imagine.
     
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  7. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

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    There will be differences in the wiring loom as I believe all the K20 based engines aren't fly by wire throttle whereas K24A3 is.
     
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  8. patrick737 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Ok swapping is a proces of its own, and is totally new for me!
    Just to be sure: If I swap my K20A6 with a K24A, all my climatronics, systems etc.... will still be able to function as normal?
    Is there a guide on engine swapping a k20a6 to a k24a??
    I really have no idea where to start and where i have to pay attention to.:help:
    I don't even knwo where to find such an engine!

    By the way I saw a video on youtube with a supercharged K20A6! Is that possible at all??
     
  9. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    There's more DBW K20s than cable mate, it's just the early Type-Rs that most performance parts are based on being cable that makes it seem otherwise!

    HVAC and what not will be fine yeah, there will no doubt be some little nuances which need resolving - but on the Pre-Facelift there's not half as many gadgets as the later Facelift so you should be okay. I'd need to give it some proper thought as to where there would be issues.

    There's no guides mate, there's only one person I've ever known who's done it that I mentioned before. No-one would really choose to go this route normally as it's far easier and more cost effective just to grab a CL9 to begin with.

    eBay is a good place to look, ringing around breakers, as well as parts groups on Facebook.

    Sure it is, many of the bolt-on Supercharger kits available would be fine, thing is - again you're paying thousands for something you could achieve naturally aspirated on a more powerful engine. Or further more, you'd see way more gain supercharging a Type-R or K24 engine. It's all about the easiest route to power for me, there's no reason you can't supercharge a K20A6, just doesn't seem like the best route forward to me.
     
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  10. patrick737 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Well a total engine swap is a big step, and adding a supercharger is smaller step for me ;-)
    But what wil I gain roughly? 50hp or more? And do i need to change anything else from the engine?
    Can the ECU of this particular engine be remapped when a supercharger is installed?? Because that is a other thing that bugs me!
    The ECU is a bit of a pain the ***

    Thanks anyway for all your help so far really appreciate it!
     
  11. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

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    Supercharger really depends on the kit used and all the rest, when any level of boost is being run on a stock block and valve-train the longevity of the components needs to be considered. You're talking 3-5psi as safe on a stock block, if I was to make a guess you're probably talking 25-40hp. The K20A6 is a SOHC engine, without true VTEC (it activates 4 redundant valves at a set RPM instead of a secondary aggressive cam profile) - there's limitations there. To run greater boost reliably you'll need to start building up the block and head to handle it, but there's not much in the way of aftermarket components for the K20A6 being SOHC (though you could swap the head, that's another story altogether).

    This is why it makes sense to build a car for power on a well-supported engine platform, but it makes no sense financially to try back-engineer a base CL7 into running better engines, when you can grab a CL9 with a 2.4 engine for less - or grab a Euro-R for out of the box performance (220hp).

    If it was my car, I was attached to it and didn't want to change. I'd start by thoroughly researching what's needed to pop a K24A3 into a CL7, comparing parts diagrams between that and the CL9 and trying to get a list. Naturally aspirated it's easy to get a K24 above 250hp, mine's hopefully going to see around 275-300hp when I'm done. Supercharged or turbo the sky is the limit, but to build up the engine to handle it reliably, you do need some deep pockets.

    The ECU can be remapped, it can't be remapped for a supercharger - if you were to use say the CT-Engineering kit, you'd need a TSX ECU controlled by Hondata FlashPro (this is what I use, massive guide on the site), but that's for the K24A3, so again we're talking engine swap. Other custom set-ups with a Rotrex supercharger, or a kit from Kraftwerks will require an ECU with Hondata's K-Pro - but they again only support K20 Type-R engines or the K24A3 again IIRC.

    It all comes back down to the engine choice as to how easy it is to make power, the CL9 or CL7 Euro-R are the platforms to do it on where the 7th Generation Accord is concerned. You can swap an engine in, but it's something you want to have some basic knowledge on before undertaking ideally.
     
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  12. patrick737 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    It seems my engine is better off left alone :Sobbing:

    Thanks for all your help / advise!
     
  13. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

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    Didn't mean to put you off completely! :Innocent:
     
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  14. dinoc Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    His engine in CL7 should be a DOHC not SOHC.
    A guy over here with CL7 had a reflash on his car this weekend and he had a k24 Weapon R header on his car also before reflash. After reflash he race his friend with his stock CL7 and he beated quite hard. He is happy about his upgrade investment reflash + headers.
    Both cars were MT.
     
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  15. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

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    You're right :Thumbup:
     
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  16. moi Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    ...sell the 2.0 and buy a 2.4 ...
     
    dinoc likes this.
  17. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    I'm guessing you have one for sale?

    But surely a remapped diesel is the cheapest and easiest route to 200+BHP performance! Well, until the clutch and DMF throw in the towel...
     
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  18. dinoc Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    I saw attempts like this in the past with diesel pushed to their limits but in real life, like street racing (ie 0-402m) I saw they tend to disappoint, somehow they are not capable to put the power down, in a racing vs a CL7 MT, the last one will win, any day (I saw stock CL7 beating stock 170hp TDI VW Passat easely) :Smile:
     
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  19. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

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    It's not even a fair power comparison with the diesels, turbo lag and the narrow power band make the real world differences huge, especially with the weight difference too.
     
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  20. patrick737 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Ok now it gets interesting!
    It seems i don't have the K20A6 engine but the K20Z2 (facelift) DOHC version.
    Will this make any difference? And what is the differcence between SOHC and DOHC?

    [A guy over here with CL7 had a reflash on his car this weekend and he had a k24 Weapon R header on his car also before reflash. After reflash he race his friend with his stock CL7 and he beated quite hard. He is happy about his upgrade investment reflash + headers]

    What reflash/ headers and whats the gain in HP??

    Gr. Patrick