Service & Maintenance Car back from service and health check with 2 issues

Discussion in '8th Generation (2008-2015) [Acura TSX]' started by bijomaru, Thursday 6th Aug, 2015.

  1. bijomaru Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Rob Swindon
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    Had the car in for the first service since I bought it. Will try to keep the oil changes at a regular 6000 miles interval as required by the warranty I took with the car, and as advised by the manual.

    I've prepared a long list of things to check as the dealer in Swindon has offered to look at those.

    Some 'usual' wear and tear bits like castellated rear tyres (new set on order), 70% worn front brake pads and alignment needed.

    2 bits they listed and unsure how to proceed are:
    a) clutch judder - was advised not to do anything unless the clutch starts slipping. But, this may be caused by
    b) over-adjusted hand brake

    In respect of b) I was advised to strip and readjust the rear brakes. How do you regulate handbrake on rear callipers? In 7th Generation it was by the bolt near the lever, right? How do I regulate it on 8th Generation? Now they said that the fact their over-adjusted means they are always braking slightly - would explain my low 40s MPG figures as well as the clutch judder.

    The clutch judder mainly occurs when reversing (but can happen in 1st) if I release the clutch pedal too sharply. It almost feels like the engine shaking in its mounts. So my suspicions are also on those mounts. What's the best way to inspect them? Took a pick of the top mount and it looks rusty. Am I facing a bigger issue here?

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  2. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    If the handbrake is dragging then at least one of the rear discs will be getting noticeably hot after a short drive (with a minimum of braking by you!). I'd check that before making adjustments.

    It matters not that the engine mount is rusty, its the state of the rubber bushing that determines whether it judders.

    Do Honda recommend services at 6k miles? That's less than half of the recommenation for a 7th Generation diesel!
     
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  3. bijomaru Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Rob Swindon
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    Yeah I just had rear brake pads binding on the 7th Generation for which I have ordered new callipers as the old ones were malfunctioning (the hand brake mechanism would not return when releasing the hand brake). But I'll check if it gets hot after a short drive.
     
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  4. bijomaru Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Rob Swindon
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    @Zebster the manual for Type-S states indeed that recommended service is every 6000 miles. Furthermore, the warranty that I got with the car lists that as one of the conditions (oil change every 6000 miles).

    I found a guide here on minor adjustment to handbrake so will try that first.

    As for the engine mounts, how to determine their state? The judder is the only thing that really annoys me at the moment and I need to do something about that. If I let off the clutch to sharply, the rattle is quite bad. I don't even think I can move from stationary without revving it up a bit before releasing the clutch. Something I could easily do on my 7th Generation with 200k miles old clutch!
     
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  5. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    I've not played with an 8th Generation, but usually with engine mounts a good look with a torch will show up whether they have cracked or otherwise deteriorated. Unfortunately (if its the same as a 7th Generation diesel) one of the engine mounts is on the rear of the engine sump!

    Unless they have got oil on them, I doubt the mounts will be knackered... Mine are all fine after over 10 years/165k miles.
     
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  6. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Rob is the juddering when reversing or all the time ?
    Honda have acknowledged there is juddering on all CU3 and CW3 This is not a fault but a characteristic of the car, something to do with to the design of the engine mounts. There also was a revised CMC hose which the ATS cars needed to have this juddering removed, speak to fish brothers to see if your ATS has the revised hose damper.
     
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  7. bijomaru Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Rob Swindon
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    It's more easily induced when reversing, but also can be felt if moving forward, but that's obviously the gear ratios coming into play.

    I'll be calling Fish Brothers Honda tomorrow so I will ask that question. Whether they took a note of it when they looked ... All they said is that there is a judder (they recorded it in the health check, so I guess it won't be anything they had expected), so maybe the hose hasn't been replaced. Is this covered by some extended warranty?
     
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  8. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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  9. John Dickson Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    @bijomaru Mine can judder easily when reversing and occasionally in first but less often than when reversing.

    Judder in reverse has happened since day one.
     
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  10. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Another reason to say Engineers can't still perfect Noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH) on diesel, as they are highly unbalanced engine.
     
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  11. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    My diesel doesn't judder, at least noticeably. It must be an I-DTEC thing?

    More vibration yes, but surely a 4-cylinder in-line diesel engine must inherently be as balanced as a 4-cylinder inline petrol engine?
     
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  12. John Dickson Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    I'm an electrical engineer not mechanical but I wonder if it is something to do with the high compression ratio of the diesel engine or the fact that diesel doesn't burn that smoothly?

    I mean 4 cylinder cycle means there will always be two pistons at opposite point of the stroke to the other two - two at TDC ; the other two at BDC for example. Then add twin cam into the equation and they will counter balance each other as although they rotate in the same direction they will be 180 degrees opposite to each other (I'm not explaining what I mean very well -sorry!) what I mean is will the inlet cams will be exactly opposite point on their rotation to exhaust valve cams?

    It's still a 4 stroke so I've often wondered why diesels should be so much rougher than petrols.

    Just been out in the car and it does judder in reverse but I've kind of got used too it so not taken much notice until this evening. I reversed without throttle basically on the tick over of the engine up a slight incline and it was sweet as a nut next to no vibration so it may be mine is getting smoother with miles....
     
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  13. bijomaru Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Rob Swindon
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    @John Dickson when we say judder, can it get to a point where it feels like the whole engine is shaking and not a very pleasant sensation at all? I wonder if I have a different issue than the 'normal' I-DTEC judder. I guess the meet will be a good occasion to compare this with other owners.
     
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  14. John Dickson Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    @bijomaru sorry I won't be at Japfest unfortunately would really liked to have gone and met some more members and put faces to names and cars but unfortunately can't make this one but hopefully we'll have other meets.... not sure if another I-DTEC owner is going....

    It's like a judder almost on the point of stalling on insufficient revs thought it was dodgy clutch control on my part at first but it isn't. It does feel as if the whole engine could be shaking and it's a bit like drive-line shunt.

    There are things that I'm not probably aware of but as far as I'm aware it's the same block on Type-S just different turbo vanes and inlet manifold as far as I am aware. Other members who are more clued up will be able to tell you better though.

    I will say this though it's no worse than any other diesel I've driven it's just a characteristic I think - they are more "industrial".

    All I can think of is it is due to the higher compression ratio. When you stall a diesel it's "bang" and a sudden abrupt stop far more than a petrol and I suspect this is the higher compression stopping the engine more abruptly.
     
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  15. bijomaru Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Rob Swindon
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    That sounds like an accurate description, although I can't recall experiencing that in the I-CTDI. I guess I will have to try this once I'm done replacing the callipers and it's back on the road.
     
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  16. bijomaru Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Rob Swindon
    669
    290

    I'm going to see them tomorrow. Is this the same issue? I get the whirring yeah, but again as it's 2011 may be just bearing actually on its way. Tried searching for a TSB as well for the actual judder but can't find. It's annoying as if I've parked at work and one of the axles is in a lateral depression in ground, trying to get out is a challenge. If I let of too much clutch it judders to a point where it's about to stall. If I don't let off enough clutch it won't get out. Maybe it's just me getting used to it, but not something that I can just get over about at the moment.

    Are TSB costs covered by Honda and PUD paid by the customer? What are the differences?
     
    Last edited: Friday 14th Aug, 2015
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