Engine & Gearbox Catastrophic Engine Failures MY 2008 & 2009

Discussion in '2nd Generation (2004-2009)' started by tomwillie, Saturday 1st Aug, 2015.

  1. tomwillie Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    England Tom Royston
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    On S2KUK web site several years ago an unexpected high number of engine failures were reported in MY 2008 & 2009 S2000's. Even some replacement engines also failed.

    I followed this up with Honda UK & they received the following explanation from Honda engineers in Japan:

    "In some cases, oil application to the crankshaft thrust washer during production was insufficient. Combined with a high surface pressure, this could result in scuffs on the thrust washer, leading to abnormal wear and eventually abnormal noise."

    It seems that some users ignored the abnormal noise probably due myth of only one know VTEC engine failure & eventually catastrophic engine failures resulted. Most failures occurred in first 8k miles although some at higher mileages. In most cases Honda covered cost of replacement engines if no signs of abuse & Honda service records.

    If out of warranty the cost of replacing the thrust washers I believe is about £500 which is a lot less than £12000 for a new engine or about £4000 for TMG to install a reconditioned engine. Apparently S2000 engine rebuilds are not usually very successful so if any abnormal engine noise becomes apparent drive very carefully with as little revs as possible to a safe place to stop & get the car taken by flat bed to a Honda main dealer for diagnosis.

    S2000 engines of all model years have also failed due to lack of oil, being thrashed on track days without sump baffles being installed & over revved on down changes when rev limiter cannot protect the engine.

    Thus if buying an S2000 it would be advisable to first know what Crank End Float value is as it is a simple job for the dealer to measure & I was not charged by Norton Way Honda, Letchworth as being a long standing customer. My end float value was reported as 0.2mm with the standard being 0.1 to 0.35 & limit 0.45mm so my value is in middle of range.

    Also get valve collars inspected for any signs of damage that might have occurred due to over revving. First check red crackle finish on cam cover for signs of any damage & agree with dealer as mine got chipped & the repair made free of charge is not a good colour match. Need to emphasis that cover must be handled carefully before collars inspected & may as well have valve clearances checked at same time.
     
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  2. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    I don't think MY08 and MY09 were affected with the thrust washer issue it was the early ones and they were subsequently fixed, But this problem is not widespread as its reported.

    As for over revving on down shift any Honda can be damaged.The rev limiter job is to protect the engine when you are going up the rev range, the down shift is not electronically induced so the rev limiter cannot engage as this is a mechanical change they are two separate things.

    S2000 engine are robust they need to be looked after a lot you cane them you need to invest in strict maintenance schedule and have no expense mentality when it come to repairs, not wait for things to go wrong which all of the above after are, apart from the thrust washer issue. Sorry mate these type of posts wind me up as people wait for things to go bad and then say its Honda they are crap . Rant over ..

    Tom don't take it personally mate.

    Bulletins & Advisories - Oil Jet Bolt Replacement on Honda S2000, 00~02YM
     
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  3. tomwillie Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    England Tom Royston
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    This post was simply made to give owners & potential owners of S2000's practical advice & reasons why two checks should be carried out to see if any remedial work is required before any serious problems occur out on the road ie stitch in time saves nine.

    Having been a member of S2KUK for many years & having exchanged emails with Richard Clisshold, Customer Relations Technical Advisor Honda UK & Phil Dix Manager - Customer Operations, I am certain of the facts regarding problems with crank thrust washers on some MY 2008 & 2009 S2000's.

    In fact I sought Richrard's permission to make a post on this matter in May 2014, but as I do not bother to pay $20 to S2000 International I cannot post on that web site so have done so on Honda Karma instead.
    - - - Updated - - -
    With hindsight a better title would have been : "How to Minimise Risk of Catastrophic Engine Failure"
     
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    Ichiban likes this.
  4. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    Great information @tomwillie :Thumbup:

    I've heard of the early model engine failures before, but I think @Ichiban and @tomwillie that you're talking about separate issues here.

    It would be good to check for a TSB regarding this specifically for MY2008 and MY2009.
     
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  5. tomwillie Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    England Tom Royston
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    There is no TSB Honda dealt with MY 2008/2009 engine failures on an individual basis.
    - - - Updated - - -
    TSB regarding early engine problems were to do with engine oil bolts which were sorted by MY 2003 production as I had my then MY 2003 S2000 GT checked that it had latest engine oil bolts.
     
    Last edited: Sunday 2nd Aug, 2015
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  6. tomwillie Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    England Tom Royston
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    The ECU will also record any over rev event but changing a battery losses the codes I was advised by service manager that my car had a record of a battery change, & clutch master cylinder, under previous ownership.

    Having bought the car in May 2013 & re-joined H2KUK users club I was taken aback to read about MY 2008/2009 engine failures with even some replacement engines also failing in spite of users taking extra care to run them in. I thus purchased a three year Honda extended warranty with wear & tear for £825 at end of first year cover provided when purchased. Local dealer had quoted £1050 but from H2KI (international) forum I knew I could get it for less & supplying dealer quoted £825 which local dealer then matched. This cost was significantly less than what either Warranty Direct or Warranty Wise quoted & is up to a value of £15000 which more than covers a new engine cost.

    However, subsequent further study of HSKUK forum posts indicated that checking valve collars for damage in the AP01 engine was a physical way of seeing if any over revving had occurred, so I had that done. Then just recently I meet another local S2KUK member by chance who advised that it was an easy task to get end float of crank checked, which I also have had done. If I had known about the crank end float check a couple of years ago and it had turned out OK I would not have purchased the Honda extended warranty. The service manager knew of my concerns regarding the engine but did not suggest the crank end float check & it was not on the S2KUK posts which are posted on S2KI ( international) forum that requires an extra $20 subscription to make posts.

    I meet up with the other local S2KUK member as his wife had spotted my car when parked showing its H2KUK windscreen sticker, maybe Honda Karma should consider making windscreen stickers available for a small fee?
     
    Last edited: Sunday 2nd Aug, 2015
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