Autocar Could a car beat the outright lap record for the Isle of Man TT course?

Discussion in 'News Feeds' started by Autocar, Friday 27th Sep, 2013.

  1. Autocar Auto-Generated News Feed

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    IoM (1). Current TT champ John McGuinness is the fastest man on a bike round the Isle, but could a car beat him? And if so, which model would it have to be?I spent a couple of days on the Isle of Man recently, filming another one of our Pure Driving Experience vids with Dunlop.
    I took a Mercedes-Benz A45 AMG, and more by luck than judgement we managed to persuade the powers that be on the island to close the fearsome mountain section of the TT course so that we could film on it to our hearts' content.
    Which meant that I could drive the A45 pretty much as fast as I could, all day long, across one of the fastest, most dangerous sections of the world's fastest, most dangerous road racing course. So it was quite a day out, and has hopefully produced quite a good vid.
    But on the journey home, and during the days that followed, I kept on wondering - might it be possible to drive a car faster than a motorbike around the 37.73 mile TT course?
    You couldn't do it in a road car, of course, because as it stands the outright lap record is a frankly astonishing 17min 11.572sec, held by current TT champion John McGuinness. He did the time on a full house Honda CBR 1000 RR earlier this year, and it meant that he lapped the course at average speed of, deep breath, 131.671mph. Which is, of course, totally insane and is way beyond the capabilities of anything four wheeled that wears a set of number plates.
    The current unofficial road car lap record, for example, is held by ex-rally driver Mark Higgins, who drove a "lightly modified" Subaru Impreza around the course in a whisker under 20 minutes a year or two ago, at an average speed of "just" 113mph.
    But what about the four-wheeled equivalent of the record-holding Honda CBR 1000RR? Something like a high downforce Le Mans car? Could that go faster around the fast but quite bumpy TT course, or would it simply fall off the road in the attempt?
    Or, on the other hand, what about one of the triumvirate of new hypercars that has recently been unleashed – LaFerrari, Porsche 918 and McLaren P1; would any of these be able to summon enough speed along the straight bits and grip around the twisty bits to threaten or even beat the McGuinness record?
    I personally think they could get very close. The Le Mans car would have the best chance,obviously, but because of the bumps and the weird cambers in certain places you'd be that much more likely to stack it in the attempt.
    Which realistically means it would be down to the McLaren ET al to step up and give it a go.
    I imagine that anyone who rides a motorbike and has watched the TT, or seen the film TT Closer to the Edge, is currently foaming at the mouth in disbelief that I could even suggest such a thing might be possible. But I'm not so sure. So maybe we should try to find out. As they say, watch this space...


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  2. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    No chance . Trying to beat a Honda motorbike that averaged 131mph round the circuit .. get outta here !
     
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  3. Doc Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Matt Peterborough
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    I bet you could beat a bike round there in a car. An Ariel Atom can beat a motorbike round a track so why not round the TT circuit. It can out brake a bike and out corner it. The only question would be about the Atoms top speed.

    Bikes have been historically quicker than cars because of their acceleration and braking capabilities. But cars in recent years have been able to out perform them, and with a lower centre of gravity and bigger contact patch with the road will out corner them quite easily.
     
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  4. AccordCU2 Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Good shout Doc.
    Ariel Atom top speed is 168mph btw.
     
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  5. Doc Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Matt Peterborough
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    I remember it because they raced the Atom against a bike on Top Gear and it left it for dead.
     
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  6. ACC-CDI-2T Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    Cologne
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    ... may be a unmanned model ... :shock::

     
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  7. MickyB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Hasn't somebody just done this I'm sure I read about it somewhere recently.
    As for bikes being faster than cars around a track I beg to differ on that one. Please read on

    Disaster struck the ‘Black Mamba’ and Andy Demetriou at Oulton Park, but not before they could twice smash the Time Attack lap record and beat a British Superbike! Andy never wastes any time getting on the pace and immediately took a second and a half off the previous outright Time Attack lap record, with a 1:23.868 on his first hot lap of the day in the warm up. He bettered this in Practice (1:22.180) and for a while held both the Pro Extreme and outright lap records. Later in the day he won a lap-time battle with Australian Jed Metcher on a PR Racing British Superbike, as part of the Tunerfest North show. Sadly the day did not end so well. The Drenth Motorsport/IPVDX team had suffered one engine failure just before the event. After rushing to fit the spare engine in time, the replacement engine then failed shortly after the Time Attack against the bike. We wish Andy and the team well. Let’s hope he’ll be back at Croft for Round 5, as he was clearly in great form and the team believe there was plenty of lap time still to come. - See more at: Event Report : Oulton Park Rd.4 (Pro) - Time Attack® - It's not racing... It's Time Attack!!
    Oh and by the way. This is what he did it in
    image.
     
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  8. HondaHeritage Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    slim london
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    dino attack !!

    not a fair comparision Jed Metche is a relative newbie to the bsb championship and m/c racing with no outstanding results and has done only a handful of events in fact i don't think you will find he,s even raced at oulton park ? but he could easily win an endurance race against the car he competed with :Wub::Wub::Wub::Wub: no time comparissions were released ?
    the bsb lap record was set i believe this year by josh brookes 1m:34.850s this was done on the long circuit which is over half a mile longer and nearly twice as many corners as the time attacks island circuit
    sorreeeeeeee juries still out on this one :Grin:

    raptorsaurs are faster:Grin:
     
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  9. MickyB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Well Andy actually only arrived from Cyprus 5 days before this took place. I think the bike would have some experience of the circuit and racing or else he would not be competing in the BSB. And if the car hadn't had the engine problem I think Andy would have blown the lap record out of the water. I've seen this car and having been involved with the TA scene for a number of years now apart from the Roger Clark Motorsport Gobstopper 2 ( which recently broke the Goodwood festival of speed record) this car stands head and shoulders above the rest.
     
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  10. HondaHeritage Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    slim london
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    what lap record ? time attack record or overall lap record?
    the bsb motorcycle rider has never raced at oulton park
    the bsb lap record is on the long circuit not the island circuit

    bikes and raptors are faster :Grin:
     
    Last edited: Monday 10th Aug, 2015
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  11. MickyB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Jury's out over that:Smile:
    The time attack cars are regularly breaking lap records normally those of the BTCC boys.
     
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  12. HondaHeritage Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    slim london
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    sorry meaningless comparission
    a formula 1 car will smash a time attack record equally as meaningless comparission
    i shall go on
    a ferrari is faster than a mini
    the meaning of a lap record is a the fastest lap recorded by a car in its racing CLASS
    overall lap record is the fastest racing car of any class NORMALLY A FORMULA 1 OR 2 CAR

    Time attack car are not racing cars by there own addmission :eek: so cannot take a racing cars lap record any how :Grin:


    the rapid raptor :smoke:
     
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  13. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    You make a valid point slim never heard of that rider in top flight racing.
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    I can't see cars taking the IOM corners at that speed which the bikes can do it that easily. People also forget IOM circuit is public roads there are sections in town which are not pristine Tarmac setting up a car to deal with these varaition on single carriage roads is hard.The racing line bike will take are narrower than a cars and it not perfect to use all that road width the cars will need.
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    Top speed makes no difference in IOM it helps but you can't beat a bike on that circuit , you need to get IOM get on the circuit and you will see it's no easy task.
     
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  14. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    That's what I was thinking too CJ.
     
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  15. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    I forgot to add a top flight IOM bike racer needs approximately 5-7 years to learn the entire course and be a master at it. They know every single inch of that tarmac what gear to be in where the pitfalls are (manholes, bumps , rough tarmac,hedges , letter boxes ,jumps, bridges, blind corners which apex to hit which apex to miss where to shift up where to short shift etc etc etc).

    So good luck with your beast of car LOL.
     
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  16. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Prime example this clip see what Bruce does before and after the Raven pub jump, it not all about flat out!, it being smooth, be smooth the speed will come naturally. :Smile:

     
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  17. MickyB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    a ferrari is faster than a mini

    Now that I would doubt, you see a work colleague of mine owns one of these



    Let me tell you a little about it, armed with a 2L Civic Type-R engine, supercharged to produce 330bhp, oh and the best bits are
    It only weighs 500kgs and can go from 0-60 in 3.2seconds!!! Will a Ferrari do that??? I wonder.

    It's Not racing it's TIME ATTACK:neo:
    the rapid raptor :smoke:[/QUOTE]
     
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  18. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    There lies the problem time attack is so boring its any man and his dog can do.

    "A time attack is a type of motorsport where the race cars compete against a clock, and not directly against each other. Each car is timed through one circuit of the track, and there are no other cars on the track at that time."