Engine & Gearbox Could I just run this past you (starting the car)

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by ArcticFire-Account Closed, Monday 29th Apr, 2013.

  1. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    2005 2.4 Petrol Accord Saloon. When I first got the car it was still cold outside and it sounded like it struggled to turn first thing, so I replaced the battery with a new genuine Honda one and it was much better.

    Something I'm noticing now is that it turns great, takes perhaps about five turns and then it sounds like it's about to fire up but then there's suddenly a dipped silence for about 1/2 second and then it roars to life but it sounds like it's only just catching but when it has caught it's almost as if the ignition is more powerful than it should be, if you know what I mean? lol It's more noticeable when cold. Drives fine though, no misfires, acceleration good etc.

    Before I start diagnosing things, is this normal?


    Cheers
     
    Loading...
  2. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    14,999
    5,595
    4
    Check you got good earth connections.

    Could also be an issue with your starter motor.
     
    Loading...
  3. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    Cheers. Hope it isn't the starter motor! I checked the manual last night and was surprised to see the starting procedure for petrol engines. I always turned to stage 2 and waited for a second until various lights went out and the humming/pumping noise stopped (fuel pump?). Then I'd start the car with my hoof on the clutch. But the manual says to just turn straight through to stage 3.

    So I did it the official way this morning and the battery sounded a little weaker whilst turning and it did the same thing with ignition. Perhaps it's just the cold and combined with the short runs I do, I only get on the motorway once a week and it's only for about 10 minutes at 50mph, perhaps the car needs a good charge and blast! (any excuse eh? lol). I may do an oil change also as it was last serviced in December, but unfortunately at that apparently terrible main dealer so who knows what oil is in the car.

    Would it be worth checking the spark plugs? Suppose it's only a quick job so probably worth it.


    EDIT: I filmed it starting this morning so once I find this phone cable of mine that's been pinched I'll upload it somehow.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Went to start up this afternoon and it turned better and then when stopping for about 5 mins and restarted it fired after one turn so I think I'll just put it down to a cold engine in the morning and possibly do some routine checks and a service. :Smile:
     
    Last edited: Tuesday 30th Apr, 2013
    Loading...
  4. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    There's definitely a problem here. When over say 3-4 hours cold the engine doesn't catch well at all and sounds like it's about to die before suddenly catching and starting up. When warm or only an hour cold it's absolutely fine though.

    It drives fine so I guess I can rule out the starter motor, fuel filter, spark plugs, air filter etc. Does it have auto choke, or is it all taken care of by ECU adjusting the fuel mixture? What I'm wonder is if it's the oil, perhaps the wrong type is in and it's too thick when cold? Also thinking it could be the Air Temp Sensor not working right and making the engine think it's warmer than it is?


    EDIT: Something else I just realised, I think this has only started happening since using Shell VPower Petrol, can the higher RON be causing this?
     
    Last edited: Sunday 5th May, 2013
    Loading...
  5. Racy Jace Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    I had very simlar problem on my old Primera and it turned out to be a damaged earth lead hidden in the engine bay. It could have been on the starter motor if that had one.
     
    Loading...
  6. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    The car was stone cold this morning so I thought I'd try putting my accelerator pedal down halfway before turning the key and the engine fired up with no hesitation. What do you reckon? This Air Temp Sensor is making most sense in my head if it's tricking the ECU into thinking the engine is hotter than it actually is because if it's not then surely me overriding the fuel input with the accelerator pedal wouldn't change anything?

    I'm getting a sinking feeling that this sensor will be tiny, but have a mighty price tag! lol

    Could there be anything else I'm missing?
     
    Loading...
  7. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,178
    6,408
    516
    Loading...
  8. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    Will get a clip sorted. It seems to turn fine so I can't imagine it's the battery (which is a brand new OEM Honda one). Cheers
     
    Loading...
  9. deano24v Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    kent
    46
    6
    Coolant temp sensors can throw up similar sort of problems too.
     
  10. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    £49 for the Air Temp Sensor isn't as bad as I thought. Is this part number the right one for the Coolant Temp sensor? 37870PNA003
     
    Loading...
  11. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,178
    6,408
    516
    Articfire I will not change one part on the car until you have a better idea if there is a fault . what happens on other cars is on thing but don't associate them on yours.

    If the battery is new it won't cause that.
     
    Loading...
  12. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    No worries, I'm not in a hurry with this as it's still starting etc. I'm just preparing myself! lol I might plugin my reader as it can do live analysis type thing, will probably show nothing but worth a shot :Smile:
     
    Loading...
  13. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,178
    6,408
    516
    Ideally you want the car read by HDS the generic one don't tell you trending Snap on will but it doesn't know the parameters for data logging and trending.

    I won't believe on your car with the pattern you experiencing there won't be a lot of DTC logged.
     
    Loading...
  14. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    It started fine this morning despite being a little colder than the last few days. Is it possible there could have just been a little bit of dirt that was settling in the fuel filter which the V-Power Nitro+ has helped clear up or has shifted? I've got some belts, tensioners or pulleys to address first though, there's a slight squeal coming from them when cold - the car has done about 65K so I'm not sure when the belts are due.
     
    Loading...
  15. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    Damn, it's still doing it and what's annoying is that sometimes when the engine is cold it doesn't happen.
     
    Loading...
  16. i-DSI Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Belgium Aalst
    1,046
    300
    1
    Meanwhile, Arcticfire, did you check thoroughly the earth connections and battery cables?
    Pay attention for surface corrosion on the earth cables and battery clamps.
    If they are OK and a service is due anyhow: try out 0W20 Honda engine oil with a new oil filter.
    I don't believe in durt in the fuel filter causing this. If the dirt would come into the injectors, it would cause random enginge hesitation and cut off. Not only at engine start.
    A broken temp sensor or other vital sensor would cause the engine MIL to light up.
    Spark plugs: check maintenance history, but on the 2.4, only every 75k miles they need replacement (for 7th Generation).
    More likely: valve clearance. Needs to be checked every 25k miles on 2.4 7th Generation.
     
    Loading...
  17. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    Sorry, I missed your reply as it didn't come up bold (sometimes they do, sometimes they don't! lol).

    It was the worst ever today, went to start it up and it turned fine and then just as it was about to fire it stopped turning and it felt like the car went dead for literally 1/4 of a second and then it fired up - but didn't fire up ultra smooth, you can tell there's something not quite right going on. 10 minutes later and went to start it again and it's fine and continues to be fine so long as it's not been left for hours to cool down.


    • I'll check the battery terminals as soon as I get a chance, although the starter turns fine.
    • Fuel? As you say, were it fuel then I'd be getting problems whilst driving as well. I'm wondering if this could be related to the V-Power and then subsequently Nitro+? I wouldn't think so but I was using BP fuel initially and then switched to Shell. Probably just a coincidence.
    • Sparks? Would I not be getting problems whilst driving also? I've checked them all and they seem fine.
    • No MIL lights coming on.
    • Oil? I was wondering about this but the engine cranks fine when starting up and doesn't struggle to turn. I don't know enough about the internal workings of the engine to know if there's something else during the startup procedure where oil could effect it?
    • Valves? I could check them, although would I not hear a problem here first?
    • Belts/Tensioners/Pulleys: Something needs doing here, I don't know what but there's a faint squeal coming from the belts when the car is cold. Could this be effecting things?

    I don't want to start replacing parts unnecessarily, I think an oil change and new air filter will be a good starting point though. One other thing which may or may not be important but I'm sure the performance isn't quite as good now when flooring it. It crossed my mind that I'm probably just getting used to it, but I'm sure it's not as rapid now. How touchy is the Accord 2.4 when it comes to the valve clearances? This does make sense in my head as I'm thinking when the engine is cold then the clearance will be slightly more, so perhaps it's too much - but when warmer then the gap closes. Or have I got that arse over elbow? haha


    Cheers again, I'm definitely going to find this problem! lol


    PS. I do try and video it but either it's not obvious in the video or it doesn't happen when I remember to film! I think I'll need to get someone else to start the car whilst I listen at the engine bay and film.
     
    Loading...
  18. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    14,999
    5,595
    4
    Last edited by a moderator: Sunday 23rd Feb, 2014
    Loading...
  19. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    Cheers, my wallet has just grown legs and done a runner. :eek:
     
    Loading...
  20. i-DSI Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Belgium Aalst
    1,046
    300
    1
    Arcticfire, don't be afraid! Seeing the symptoms you discribe, a simple check and adjustment of the valve clearance might solve everything.
    Second place: spark plugs. You say they look OK. But did you check for the correct type and measured/adjusted the gap??
    Airfilter: if it's not dirty, leave it. It won't help you with firing up your engine. The problem is temperature related. FYI: spark plugs can work fine once engine started and has a certain temperature. Most difficult circumstances for spark plugs is a cold start.
     
    Loading...