General EGR clean & Engine management light

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by richb87, Tuesday 17th Mar, 2015.

  1. richb87 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom richard rhyl
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    So had my Accord about a week now and the EML light came on and car is in limp mode most of the time. Some good members on here suggested the EGR needed cleaning so I done that this morning and just as I was finishing up the postman came with my odb2 scan tool!

    I get the error P1384 apparently relating to glow plugs or glow plug relay. Can anybody clarify this for me?

    Also I think the EGR clean went well thanks to the guide on here, straight forward job and although isn't what is causing the EML at least I have a clean EGR! 20150317_113022. 20150317_113003. 20150317_120615. 20150317_120624. 20150317_122701. 20150317_131019.

    Thanks ☺
     
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  2. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

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    Yes P1384 is for glow plugs.

    For the glow plugs you need to make sure they are all getting 12v on ignition on, if you don't see this then check the glow plug relay.

    Also, to test the resistance of each one, unplug the connector at the top and test the resistance from the connector to the body. It should be between 4-8 ohms. If it's open connection or high resistance then that plug is faulty.
     
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  3. richb87 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom richard rhyl
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    Thanks for that speedy unfortunately I don't have a multimeter so ill pop to a garage tomorrow afternoon and hopefully have them use one on it. Although funnily enough I just went on a short drive and the light went out and its not in limp mode
     
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  4. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    You can check glow plugs using jump leads and a spare 12v car headlamp bulb (doesn't matter what type, but should be high wattage):-

    Remove key from ignition switch. Now remove All 4 glowplug connectors, then run one jump lead from the battery '+' terminal to one of the headlamp connectors, then run the other jump lead from the other headlight connector to one of the (now disconnected) glowplug top connectors (not the removed lead!) - you are now using the glowplug as a low-resistance ground return, so the bulb will light up if the glowplug is serviceable. Now repeat for the remaining 3 glowplugs. In my experience (normally using a multimeter) glowplugs are always less than 1 ohm resistance.

    You can then check that the glowplug feed circuitry (including the relay) is working using jump leads and a spare low wattage 12v car bulb (e.g. a 5w side/tail light):-

    With all glowplugs connected (so as normal) connect one jump lead from one of the bulb connections to the battery '-' terminal, then run the other jump lead from the other bulb connection to any one of the connections on the top of the glowplugs (you'll probably need to use a short piece of thin electrical cable here) - you are now using the glowplug feed circuitry to also feed the bulb so - when the ignition is turned on (but engine NOT started!) with a cold engine - the bulb will light up if the circuitry is functional. Now repeat for the remaining 3 glowplugs.

    BE CAREFUL - it is easy to generate a short circuit when connecting jump leads to bulbs! You should consider buying a cheap multimeter as a toolbox 'essential'.
     
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  5. richb87 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom richard rhyl
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    Thanks Zebster, sounds like you've done a lot of electrics knowing tricks like that, but looking at the price of multimeter's there's no reason not to get one and probably a lot safer in my hands.
    What's the best way to check the circuit? Me and electrics don't mix I'm not very good when it comes to amps and ohms

    Appreciate your replies! Thanks
     
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  6. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

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    If you're not comfortable then best get someone else to check it for you.
     
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  7. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Unfortunately, I must agree with SpeedyGee. If you lived nearer me then I'd gladly show you in person, but it could be very misleading for me to try to explain generic vehicle multimeter diagnosis techniques here in a few sentences! Unfortunately, most garages can be a little poor at vehicle electrics (usually there's a guy who's been on a short course), so use a specialist vehicle electrician instead.

    The technique I explained with jump leads and vehicle lamps is perfectly valid, if it makes sense (?) but do be very careful!
     
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  8. richb87 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom richard rhyl
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    Yes zebster it makes sense. Although im easily confused with electrics! Haha

    Only done a half day today so went to see local auto electrician. He tested relay and plugs but said would need to see the engine cold to be certain but the plugs are definitely working. He also put his diagnostic on it and found these codes...

    20150318_141747. 20150318_141744.

    - - - Updated - - -
    don't know why other image came up like that but if you can't see the codes are p0380 and p0670
     
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  9. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    P0380 is a closely-related problem to P1384, but is specific to the actual glow plugs rather than the relay/feed circuit. But I think it's quite possible that the P0380 might have been generated while turning the ignition on with one or more glow plugs disconnected?
    OBD II Fault Codes p0380
    OBD II Fault Codes p1384
     
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  10. richb87 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom richard rhyl
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    Yes I think he did have a plug disconnected at the time. The thing is whilst cold it runs fine with the light on though but only goes into limp mode after a few minutes so surley the plugs are okay and the problem must be an electrical connection
     
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  11. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    P0670 is another code that could easily have been generated by turning on the ignition while disconnecting glow plug circuitry.
    OBD II Fault Codes p0670

    Glow plugs often fail by suffering hairline cracks on the ceramic body, which then causes a corresponding break to the electrical circuit which may be intermittent and possibly temperature-related. This can be hard to pin down, which leads most garages to simply swap all glow plugs rather than perform individual investigation. The benefit of using a headlamp bulb as a test (as described above) is that this causes current to flow through the glow plug and causes it to warm up, which may then reveal a heat-related fault.

    Having said all this, the relay is a common problem on Honda diesels, so should be ruled out before spending money on glow plugs. Hopefully the auto-electrician is planning to do this?

    The glow plugs have a lengthy 'extended glow' period during engine warm-up where they continue to be functional functional, even though the glow plug indication has gone out.
     
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  12. richb87 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom richard rhyl
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    Okay so looks like worst case here would be replacing glow plugs but its probably worth me doing the light bulb test as you explained to possibly save buying all 4. Looking at glow plugs online what is the best make for this car? Prices vary quite a bit from 15 - 35 for one plug.
    And no the auto electrician said he won't be willing to do anything else unless he sees the car cold im pretty sure I don't really need him now anyway I don't think he really wanted to do anything to be honest
     
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  13. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Well that's a bit crap! Maybe best to test it yourself using lamps then.

    The Honda part number is 12291-RBD-E01 - part 6 in this drawing... Honda ACCORD TOURER 2005 2.2 SPORT VALVE STEM SEAL/GLOW PLUG (DIESEL) - Original Honda Parts | Lings Honda but they're actually made by Bosch and so they do also have a Bosch part number, which I believe is 0 250 503 003 (I'd stick with Bosch, rather than an alternative make). See what you can find on Amazon, eBay, etc, but definitely find out what you can get them for from Holdcroft Honda. You might as well enquire about the relay at the same time.

    Don't be put off by the prices in that Lings link... I've got an account with Cox Honda, but they're currently selling these for £16 +VAT each to anyone... Genuine Honda Accord I-CDTI Diesel Glow Plug x1-2003-2008 [12291RBDE01] - £16.00 : Buy Genuine Honda Parts, Honda Car Parts & Honda Spare Parts Online
     
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  14. richb87 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom richard rhyl
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    Cox motor parts look like the best price so far for genuine parts so thanks for that.
    Work is quiet this week so i have the time to do the light test you explained although it will be under supervision by a friend haha
    I'm feeling a lot better about the whole situation now thanks to all your help
     
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  15. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

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    You'll soon qualify for club discount from Holdcroft Honda as well, who also offer free next day delivery to members (where possible)
     
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  16. richb87 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom richard rhyl
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    Discount sounds good :Smile:

    I have ordered a full set of glow plugs from cox motor spares I figure if they are all original they will need replacing anyway and they all look old. Should arrive tomorrow so hopefully all will be good
     
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  17. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    I hope that fixes the problem!
     
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  18. richb87 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom richard rhyl
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    So far so good!
    I am not that experienced with diesel engines this is only my second diesel car. What do you guys think of the old glow plugs? 20150321_132806.
     
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  19. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Hard to tell really! Can you see any tiny cracks on the ceramic part?
    I'm guessing you didn't get a chance to check them first using jump leads and a headlamp bulb?
     
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  20. richb87 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom richard rhyl
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    I will clean them up and have a look, no I didn't unfortunately I figured if they are all the same age (probably old) will need replacing anyway and didn't want to pass up on the offer cox motor parts had on just couldn't get genuines for that price anywhere. Once there cleaned up I will test them.

    And just want to thank everyone for all the help and you zebster for being patient and the good advice :Smile:
     
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