Electrical & Lights Electrical Gremlins

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by stratos, Sunday 9th Nov, 2014.

  1. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
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    It appears I have a bit of a serious issue - hope not but it may appear so!
    Whilst getting my car ready for the MOT and checking the relevant bulbs etc are working, I noticed that the rear fog was not working.
    I checked the bulb and it had blown (or was not working) and replaced it with a known good one. Fog light still not working and no 12v supply at the bulb holder.
    I removed the rear cover for better access and checked all connections - still nothing.
    Checked the fuse box and there was NO FUSE??? - (when I purchased the car it had just passed an MOT??? - dodgy!!!)
    Checked what the rating should be and found it should have been a 7,5amp fuse but I did not have any spares but I did have a 15amp fuse so for the purpose of getting the light to work I put this in.
    Immediately, I heard a relay clicking in and so I went to the back of the car and found the bulb was illuminated - cracked it or so I thought!
    With the bulb still lit, I replaced the rear panel but as I banged in the last plastic fastener the bulb went off??
    I removed the panel again and the light was back on?? I played with all the connections within the rear panel and the bulb went off but I could not get the bulb lit again??
    I went back to the front to turn off the fog light and check the fuse and very quickly noticed smoke coming from under the dash / steering wheel so I quickly turned off the ignition and checked the fog light fuse. It didn't appear hot??
    I awaited for the smoke to clear and tried to start the car to check systems but the battery seemed to be flat.
    Charged the battery and started the car. All appeared to be ok however, when I turned the car off and went to lock it I noticed I couldn't? I cannot lock it with the key nor by pushing down on the drivers side locking button?? Also, with the key in my hand, the dash is showing (orange key warning light) that the key is still in the ignition along with the warning alarm?? None of the buttons on the key fob now work nor for opening the rear tailgate.
    I also noticed that the passenger N/S front door light was permanently illuminated now?? _ I have removed the bulb for the time being.
    The car appears to drive ok and I can only lock the car by using the key in the door method but I'm not sure the alarm is activating??

    Car is a 2007/8 I-CTDI Tourer.

    Any ideas as to what is damaged??
     
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  2. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    It looks like this car had some electrical problem previously and this was covered up by removing fuses.

    Sounds like there was a short in the wiring loom when u put the fuse and bulb back in which caused further damage whilst you checking the bulb.

    I'd think that you now need to hunt down the section of wiring that is damaged. The area where the smole came from should help you track this section down. Once you've found the damaged section you need to cut out the damaged wires and solder in new wires and used quality heat shrink sleeving.
     
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  3. Nels Moderator Staff Team

    Agree with what @SpeedyGee says. It does sound like two or more wires have fused together - the smoke from under the dash is likely to have been the plastic around the cables burning. Let us know how you get on.
     
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  4. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
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    14
    definately will, it's just the wrong time of year to mess around outside :Frown:
     
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  5. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    I had a problem earlier this year that my rear drivers side passenger door lost its ability to detect when it was open or not and the car would not detect when the ignition key was in or when I had left the lights on. Turned out to be the multiplex unit which is attached onto the rear of the fuse box. If none of the wires are burnt when you check it out, check out the multiplex unit as it does control the door illuminations etc.

    Might be an idea to check it out sooner rather than later - appreciate its getting cold, but rather get cold for an hour or two than risk losing your car to an electrical fire
     
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  6. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
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    14
    Are there any guides as best way to get at it without further damage??
     
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  7. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
    98
    14

    Not worried about the cold - just the rain! :Frown:

    Nighthawk, you say the MICU is fitted to the fuse box, is this the one fitted next to the bonnet pull?? - or is there another one elsewhere??
     
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  8. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Yes mate, the MICU is actually an integrated part of the the fuse box positioned in the footwell of the drivers side.

    Got a replacement from a scrappy, took 30 minutes to swap it over, and its fine now. Blew it when changing my door card bulbs.
     
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  9. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
    98
    14

    30 mins??
    Really struggling with getting it off due to the lack of movement in the looms. There appears to be some connectors at the back of the fuse box which are probably easy to put in but not remove.
    Found a possible cause for the smoke though and another issue why I'm struggling to remove the fuse box.
    As you look at the fuse box, there are two green plugs on the right hand side. The top (smaller) one appears to have melted into the socket and is kind of solid.
    Any ideas as to what that socket supplies???
     
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  10. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    The upper plug is signals from the door I believe (central locking, courtesy lights etc etc) but I stand to be corrected. When I was trying to resolve my issue, I ended up pulling the wires from the door switches and leading them back to the fusebox. I couldn't find a diagram online.

    The way I did mine was unplugged everything at the front initially, the only hard plug to get out is the SRS plug due to its design. I then removed the two 10mm nuts holding the fuse box in place. This gave me the flex to remove some plugs from behind by going in underneath. From memory, there are around 6 or 7 connectors at the rear. The more I removed, the more leeway I had. There are three or four right at the very top which have very little movement. Had to use a small flat screwdriver to push the prongs in to release them.

    Not easy, but certainly doable. The MICU is that curved plastic piece at the rear of the fuse box. It is fully integrated so you will need to remove the entire fuse box and replace it. Make sure the one you replace it with is identical to the one in there. There are different fuse boxes depending on your trim level of your car. There is a part number at the top of the fuse box which you can access when you remove the drivers side lower and fascia trim by the little cubby hole.
     
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  11. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
    98
    14

    Thanks for the advice. Will start again tomorrow, only the back ones to do. You are possibly correct about that plug as my central locking stopped working along with the alarm I'm guessing as the key fobs didn't work and also, the passenger courtesy door light stayed on and would not go out, had to remove the bulb in the end.
    Next, I need to find out what the connection is with the fog light and why the fuse was missing as that's the cause of all this.
     
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  12. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Sounds like a wire fused causing the passenger light to stay on as a result of the heat of everything else going.

    I would strongly suggest your MICU is up the spout, but make sure you get the correct fuse box replacement. They are different depending on the trim level of your car, I had to track down the identical one to mine (no sunroof, no electric seats etc)

    Get it all up and running first and then worry about the fog light would be my suggestion. If you slap your car in the garage, it will help others identify exactly what model it is easier.
     
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  13. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
    98
    14
    Lost me there sorry???
     
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  14. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Sorry, I meant if you put your car in the club garage, with pictures and information about the car, it will help others be able to see at a glance what your car is as it will show underneath each post and within your profile (just like mine shows my Accord and Ballade).

    You can put it here - Club Garage - Our Collection of Honda Creations

    Just click "Add Your Honda" and complete the details. Helps others know exactly what car, trim level etc, your car is so that they can help you easier. :Wink:
     
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  15. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
    98
    14
    Got ya!! need some pics!!!
     
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  16. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
    98
    14
    Definitely the MICU unit / Internal Fuse Box although I'm struggling to get it out due to space & a loom with no give!!
    I think once the Fuse Box is out, a replacement should be easier to fit.
    However, my biggest issue is the state of one of the wiring looms going into the Fuse Box. One of the green (small) plugs (see pics) that is fitted to the right side of the Fuse Box has got very very hot and welded itself to the socket / Fuse Box to such an extent that I couldn't crack the join so had to cut the wires.
    On further examination, I can (feel at first) see that the wires from that plug are also in a real bad way in that there is no insulation and the wires are all bare (see pics) and as such, will need cutting out and replacing however, I can only see so far when the wires disappear into the main loom up under the dash.

    I guess my question to you is:
    How far do you think the damage (overheated wiring) could/would go within the loom. Is the damage all I can see or do you think it's gone much further and has damaged the integrity of the whole loom. If so, am I looking at an insurance job??

    Your help is appreciated.


    Accord Fuse Box and Loom Fire 012. Accord Fuse Box and Loom Fire 013. Accord Fuse Box and Loom Fire 010.
     
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  17. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    That is some rather serious electrical damage there, you are lucky your car didnt catch fire. I am not an auto electrician so please, do not take what I say as being gospel, but whenever electrical wire overheats, it does affect its overall integrity. The heat can easily melt the protective sheath around the copper and cause them to connect and short out.

    How far has the damage gone within the loom is a "how long is a piece of string" question. If you feel up to it, you could start stripping the car back and check it out for yourself, either way though, that section needs replacing which is an interesting job. I havent replaced a wiring loom in a car for many years now and even in a simple Toyota, that was fun even though the car was just a shell as I had just rewelded the front offside back on it.

    Not sure how the insurance will feel about the work you have done so far, but I think that may be the best option at this point.

    I am curious what would have caused that to short like that, thats a lot of heat, and the cause needs to be investigated properly and possibly professionally to be on the safe side.
     
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  18. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    Jesus Andy, that's the first time I've ever seen that kind of damage. It's definitely caused by excessive heat from some damaged wire insulation or a short.

    There's an awful lot of work involved either rewiring from what's left of the intact harness, of trying to replace completely, the latter being one ball ache of the job, and the former running the risk of unseen damage further up the circuit as @Nighthawk has eluded to.

    Let's get some eyes on this: @Ichiban, @SpeedyGee, @Beefy, @PeteMM, @hondavtecr.
     
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  19. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Stoke
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    you will struggle to get just that connector for a start. you need a new wire harness and MICU.
     
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  20. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    @stratos - just for your information, beefy above is a fully qualified Honda employee and technician so he knows what he is talking about who works in our affiliated Holdcroft Honda dealership :Grin:
     
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