Electrical & Lights Engine light DTC P0087

Discussion in '8th Generation (2008-2015) [Acura TSX]' started by Nelf, Wednesday 18th Nov, 2015.

  1. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
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    hi all,

    Driving home today through crawling traffic and a bong sounded, the engine symbol lit (page 611 in owners handbook) and the car stalled/shut down. Still had electrics and I quickly clutched and started her again with no issue.

    It happened as I was driving in 1st gear very slowly without the clutch engaged, I think it went a bit lumpy very briefly just before it died.

    I carried on driving home in the stop start traffic, and all seamed normal, except for the light. I have power, no sign of reduced power or anything but the light remains. Left it for a few hours and went back to check and the same.

    Checked oil level and the car has a full Honda service history, last serviced in August (including fuel filter) Loads of fuel in the tank and shell fuel, as I always use.

    I guess I need to take her in to Honda 1st thing but thought I would run it by you all 1st.

    Any ideas guys and gals?
     
  2. John Dickson Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    My I-DTEC did this almost exactly a year ago. There was no reason to explain it. It was a Friday night as I left work. As I pulled out onto main road the light came on. No reduced power and everything worked as normal.

    The light stayed on all the way home and was still on later that evening but did go off as I went on a test drive.

    Took the car out again on the Saturday morning before I rang my dealer and the light was off apart from the normal test at start up ie light comes on to confirm bulb etc working as you start up then goes out.

    The light never came on that morning but I rang the dealer just to run it past them. They said there should be no problem as car was running ok and light was staying off but I could bring it in if it came back on or if there was a drop in performance.

    It has never come on again after a year and the car is running better than ever and it's just been serviced and no issues were found.

    The ECUs can be a bit sensitive and they are continually polling all devices and monitoring loads of data so it may only take one slight parameter to vary slightly from normal to throw a temporary code up which puts the light on.

    You may find as I did that the light is off in the morning and stays off. It sounds like you have nothing to worry about unless anything changes for the worse but keep an eye on it over the next few days. Your dealer will be able to scan for any error codes but by the sounds of it it is the same as the issue I had.

    The car should go into limp mode if there is anything major to protect itself and warn you but just keep an eye on it over the next few days.

    Hope it resolves itself like mine did and it's nothing more serious.
     
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  3. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    Engine light came on and then off in my CR-V a few days ago, honda specific code. Turns out it's the glow plugs, could be the weak battery causing this.
     
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  4. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
    114
    37
    Hi John, that's reassuring, hopefully it's just a gremlin that disappears overnight, much like yours did.

    Arcticfire - I've heard that this light could mean a number of things, even read it could be low oil, even if the low oil light doesn't come on..., it seams to be a general, Something, but we aren't telling you what, is wrong light.

    Do Honda charge to plug it in to scan for errors as a rule? Gonna pop it in on my way to work tomorrow.
     
  5. John Dickson Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    I hope so @Nelf

    It may be a DPF regen I was told as well on diesel vehicles.

    If the car monitors exhaust temperature (not sure if they do and why they would) the increase in exhaust manifold temp during DPF regen cycle could look like an out of normal range parameter to ECU in theory I suppose. (This I just me hypothesising here)

    If you know your dealer well they may well do it free but if not I can't see it being a massive cost as it's only plug in, read codes a few minutes job at most.

    Hope it works out well for you and lets us know how you get on.
     
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  6. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    Mine doesn't have a DPF, took it to an indy who can read honda codes. Said it's nothing to worry about but it's a good excuse to upgrade the battery anyway as the cca is a bit crap with the current battery.
     
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  7. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom .
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    Everyone should own their own OBD2 scanner... These are now laughably cheap and let you read and understand stored diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) so you can discover if the CEL/MIL has lit up because of a generic powertrain issue.

    Certainly worth doing this before paying a fortune for someone with a Honda-specific diagnostic system to look for you!
     
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  8. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
    114
    37
    Thanks Zebster, will bear that in mind, does it find all the codes that a main agent could?

    However...

    Popped into Honda Sheffield on my way in to work, and spoke to the service guy who I've always found very good, he said as it hasn't gone into limp mode it is more than likely just a glitch that may even sort itself out. But he admitted that it could be any number of things as its a general "all isn't well" light.

    I asked about whether there is a procedure for clearing the errors and he told me about the 3 turns ignition trick, but stated that its unlikely to work.

    So I booked it in for tomorrow AM for a £84 diagnostic session (I know Zebster!), however I got back in the car, gave the 3 key turns a go and low and behold, no light. :Smile:

    Looks like it just sorted itself out.
     
  9. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    In my experience (fairly extensive, but admittedly not with the I-DTEC), a warning light sometimes coming on and off is an early warning sign of a real problem, e.g. something is just beginning to fail.

    The Honda service guy gave you dubious advice about resetting the warning light, so you may want to take anything he tells you with a pinch of salt! Better to disconnect the battery negative terminal for 10 minutes or so (or pull the ECU fuse) and then see if the light goes off... If it doesn't then the fault is still active. The light WILL self-reset, but usually this takes three complete warm-up/cool-down engine cycles, rather than simply switching the ignition on/off.

    No, the ELM327 will not read all vehicle fault codes. It will only read powertrain codes, not VSA/ABS or bodywork system codes. But you did mention stalling, so it is a powertrain issue.

    £84 (+VAT?) Is around what you'd pay for a (cloned) Honda Diagnostic System on eBay.
     
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  10. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
    114
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    Thanks Zebster, I take your points on board, all makes sense.

    Just noticed the 3 key turn thing is also detailed on page 611 of the manual too, however it states you need to actually turn the engine over and turn off 3 times.

    £84 inc VAT.

    I will keep an eye on it and if it resurfaces I know its something that need more attention. He did say that if the car has a serious problem, it will put itself in limp mode for self preservation.
     
  11. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Normally if it's a serious problem then the ECU will stop the engine to protect it from damage. Limp mode is just for trivial 'sensor out-of-range' instances.
     
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  12. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
    114
    37
    Well the problem is back, this time cutting out on the motorway, luckily as I was exiting. But with my 6 month old boy on board, it's not a situation I'd want to experience again. Had to turn off and on whilst doing 70mph, not ideal.

    I had noticed a small issue before it did it though, it seams to hunt a bit, for example whilst keeping a steady foot on the accelerator, it's almost like the feeling you get if you tap up and then down quickly on the cruise control buttons, a very very slight surge.

    I'm screwed this weekend as I am looking after my boy whilst my wife works, so can't go to Honda and if I could, they are fully booked...

    Have to cancel visiting plans tomorrow so all round disaster...
     
  13. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom .
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    When you say 'cutting out' what do you mean... The car stopped, it went into limp mode, it misfired a bit, or something else? Did the CEL/MIL come on?

    Any garage with basic diagnostic equipment should be able to read the stored diagnostic trouble codes, interpret the meaning and suggest a likely repair.
     
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  14. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
    114
    37
    Engine cut, accelerator pedal did nothing, EML came on but had electrics still. No stall feeling, didn't, jolt like a stall, just turned off.

    Took key out, put back in, Pressed clutch, turned engine over, started fine, drove fine, light stayed on.
     
  15. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    You need to get the code read! As I said, this shouldn't need specialist diagnostic equipment, just a basic OBD2 code reader like you could buy from eBay for less than a tenner.
     
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  16. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    14,999
    5,593
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    Almost sounds like a sudden electrical/electronic failure/issue.

    As @Zebster says get the code read as first step.
     
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  17. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
    114
    37
    Cheers guys,

    I rang around the independents I have used (and trust) in the past and they were only marginally cheaper than Honda, they also couldn't look at it until Wednesday.

    So I've dropped it at Honda Rotherham (as Sheffield couldn't look at it until Thursday) this morning for them to look at it.

    I have ordered an OBD2 scanner for future use but I need this sorting ASAP so decided to take it in.

    I will let you know what is diagnosed, hopefully nice and cheap (wishfully thinking...)
     
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  18. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
    114
    37
    OK,

    Diagnostics says P0087.

    They have cleared the code and taken it for a test drive and they say it feels fine.

    They say the code is for a faulty fuel rail only, and if they were to change it its about £2k... Apparently the sensor (if its that that's failed) on the fuel rail isn't listed as a separate item.

    They are running a fuel cleaner through and I will pick up after.

    However I just don't feel like I can trust in anymore, could clearing the code remove the issue? or will it just happen again?

    Rock, hard place....

    Any advice/ideas guys?

    PS - it had a new fuel filter in August at Honda, so that rules that out.
     
  19. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    When was the last time the fuel filter was changed ? And was it a genuine Honda item ?
     
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  20. Nelf Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Neil Sheffield
    114
    37
    @SpeedyGee - Read the last line of my last post ;-)