Off-Topic Europe

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by SayamaAccord, Saturday 26th Jan, 2013.

  1. SayamaAccord Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    Euh?? Did the Midlands move outside Europe? I know Cameron has some plans, but till further notice...
    But, no joking, this says a lot about UK mentality, no? You guys really feel like you don't belong to Europe, right?
    But it's off topic. Shouldn't do this here.

    Some do and some don't...those who don't argue that the UK referendum in 1975 was about joining the European Economic Community, not political and economic union.
     
  2. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

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    What is the purpose of this thread?

    To gauge how perceptions among Brits towards Europe or being called european?
     
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  3. SayamaAccord Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    To answer the question.
     
  4. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

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    If there was a referendum to take place now the British public would vote for an exit.But to get the vote the conservative need to be in power.

    Nasal boy will be leading the country if the red voters came out in force then there will be no vote. It's a difficult one at this current moment in time where our loyalties lie. Over to you cliff
     
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  5. TheDarkKnight Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    The quicker the UK is out of the EU the better.

    Countries like Switzerland and Norway get on just fine and so would we. All this hype that the UK would lose out etc is hogwash.

    We'll do just fine without the pretence of some Franco-German polit-orgy that they always want to dominate - they'e welcome to it. The quicker we are out this cesspit, the better for the UK - plus we wouldn't have stupid EU directives like DRLs for cars. We managed just fine without DRLs and now people seemingly "can't" live without them. Stupid fashion accessory - much like the other claptrap of garbage the EU brings to our shores.
     
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  6. i-DSI Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    If you'd ask 'the public' in a referendum: 'Shall we stop taxing your income?'. I bet majoraty would also say 'YES'.
    A referendum and its answer is by far not the best for the wellfare of the people. It does might be a good thing for the political party who asked the publics opinion.

    As it is now, UK gives the impression they only want the good things of the union, but are not willing to pay to make any progress and support weaker countries. Germany and France do take the lead, that's correct. And why shouldn't they? UK seems to only work against them and that's a shame for such a great country.
     
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  7. TheDarkKnight Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Not being funny, but why should the UK help prop up poorer run countries? Why should we throw our good money after the likes of Greece, Spain and Portugal? If France and Germany are stupid enough to do so, good for them - they don't have to - they choose to - so they then can't complain when others do not follow their "lead".

    Case in point - your co-worker at work might be in debt to his eyeballs on credit cards, loans etc - why should you loan him money to get him out of debt? Its his own fault. Same with the EU.

    Imagine how wrecked the UK would be if we had the stupid Euro instead of the pound...

    As said, the quicker we are out of the EU, then all this fingerpointing at the UK about wanting to be in Europe and not having to contribute will stop. Such stupid accusations just because the likes of France and Germany don't get their way. They can go down the suicidal path of a United States Of Europe, I'd rather we were not part of it at all. I'd happily leave the UK if it came to it. I do not consider myself European and never will. Its brainwashing by political cretins who are in it for themselves and not for the betterment of ordinary citizens - thats why politics will always be a filthy, corrupt sport.

    Two fingers to Europe. We in the UK were doing just fine without it before and we'll be fine once we leave it too.
     
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  8. i-DSI Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Hi DarkKnight, I feel we will not agree. Thanks anyhow for your strong, franc opinion :Aghast:.
    Want to point out 2 things: a (much) stroger EU on
    - economical and financial level is just necessary to avoid bankrupt of certain countries. They need to be checked.
    - social level is necessary to avoid (southern and previous east European) countries use their yet not developped social security system to compete with the central European countires (we, UK, France...).
    In such a way the EU protects its members.
     
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  9. TheDarkKnight Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    No worries Geert - we're allowed to have different perspectives - thats what makes us all unique and individuals :Thumbup:

    On your first point - if countries go bankrupt in the EU, that is not the UKs fault and nor should the UK bail them out. Lets be honest, neither France or Germany would bail the UK out.

    On the second point - if other countries havent developed a social security system etc, how is that our/the UKs fault? Economic development is every countries responsibility - you can't rely on the EU club to constantly help you out. The EU is corrupt and is a poor hybrid socio-economic experiment that went pear-shaped a long while ago and not everyone agrees with it.

    The EU is not strong at all. It is only as "strong" as its weakest link, which would be Greece right now. And we all know how strong Greece is. I don't deny I am anti-European. I'm proud of it. If it stops labour movement that leaches off of our social security/welfare bill, then thats GOOD for the UK. If it means we in the UK can govern ourselves without stupid EU tax laws, for example, then that too is good for the UK.

    Considering what the UK has invested in the UK over the last 50 years, all we have to show for it are our two-faced Franco-German "friends" who only care for our monetary involvement and not a fat lot else. The fact is that the EU would lose a lot more than then UK if we left the EU and they know it. Thats why the idiot French/German politicians are worrying their pants about the reality of a referendum here - one that they do not have the balls to offer their own citizens. Hypocritical fools. :Blink:
     
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  10. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

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    Cliff you started this thread get in here we need your input.
     
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  11. i-DSI Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Great stuff you're telling there. Allow me some replies:
    - the UK receives a lot of EU support for agriculture, membership is not only negative.
    - membership allows you to share military equipment (we, e.g. have some very well equiped C-130 airplanes, F16 fighterjets and minesweepers and other members use our troops a lot like France now in Mali). On the other hand: we do not have a force to defend us against a big aggressor. We might need the others one day also and right now it saves you money (you don't need everything in your army).
    - The EU is not strong enough, because some :Wink: countries do not allow the parlement to vote by majority
    - environment legislation (water, air) makes only sense on European scale. This way you also avoid competition.
    - a referendum is NOT democratic. We don't have it, it's impossible to start it and that's a good thing. It's unfair and avoids long term politics. As said before: ask your 'citizens' about taxes and they will always answer they do not won't them anymore. I'm happy Germany and France don't have it neither. It's an oposition's weapon.

    EU is not that bad DarkKnight.
     
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  12. TheDarkKnight Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    The EU is not that good either. In fact its a damn disaster.

    Yes we got a rebate for agriculture, but that was whittled away by the stupid leftist Labour Govt because they pandered to the Eurocrat whims.

    Who cares about military sharing - if it were not for the UK, the French would have had to beg for C-17s from someone else because they don't have any and instead are waiting for the joke that is the A400M which is nowhere near close to entering service and cannot match the C-17s capabilities. Frankly, the UK should not be entertaining a damn thing in Mali. Not our business. If France wants to go dithering there, let them - nothing to do with us.

    Not having a referendum is unconstitutional - we the public vote parliament in, they are accountable to us. Unlike the polit-bureau the EU is top-heavy with! Your example of taxes is not rational. A proper question for us here in the UK would be akin to wanting to opt out of paying National Insurance for those that have private healthcare etc.
     
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  13. Malibu Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

     
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  14. i-DSI Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Hola, that's creating US situations... is it possible your a bit to the 'right' on the political scale?
     
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  15. TheDarkKnight Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    I'm free and happy to admit that I sit very much on the "right" of the political scale. As far right as you can go, in fact.

    As for creating US-style situations, its a better system. If you don't put in, you don't get out. That is why I am vehemently against NHS resources being wasted on alcoholics and drug users etc. People have a choice - if they choose to drink too much and smoke too much, why should the rest of the tax-state have to pick up the bill? I do not believe in this "we're all in it together" culture. Its BS.

    My problems are mine - I don't share them with anyone, no more than I want to pay via my taxes to support some jerk on rehab because he or she is addicted to opium or whatever substance they are affixed to. So yes, I am very much a right winger in this regard and its a trait I am very proud of.
     
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  16. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

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    no comment Cliff... ?
     
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  17. Robbie Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

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    I am not anti-European, but I am anti-EU. The original concept of a free trade area has morphed out of all proportion and I regret that. If everything were equal within the EU there would not be this debate.

    The UK is compelled by EU law to treat EU ciitizens who come to the UK the same as its own citizens, and as we have quite liberal social security and health benefits we have to provide the same for immigrants from within the EU. This is making huge demands on the UK economy and infrastructure. UK citizens in France, for instance, will not receive social security benefits or free health care. We are also compelled to pay family allowance to non-UK citizens whose families are not resident here. Consequently, we have unlimited immigration from the poorer countries of the EU and we are powerless to control this. If the boot were on the other foot I'm sure that Germany and France would be demanding immediate action.
     
  18. TheDarkKnight Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Well said Robbie :Thumbup:
     
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  19. jaytip Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    I have to agree with Robbie on this. As a taxi driver I often pick up Eastern European workers in my cab and I will often pick up 4 people living together in the same house, and that's a part of where our problems lie. That households bills are divided by 4 whereas my household bills are covered by me alone ( my wife takes car of our two young children ). I have to work a 70 hour week in order to cover my bills. Fortunately I can do that owning my own taxi, but how would I manage working alongside those Eastern Europeans on the same money? Their bills are a quarter of mine, they can afford to work for minimum wage.
    I think we need to adopt the Australian system. If you have a skill we need, come on in, if you don't,goodbye.
     
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  20. AccordCU2 Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Not all Eastern Europeans are all the same and shouldn't be all tarnished with same brush.
    I am one myself,I am also a British citizen and work full time and pay all my taxes and never ever been on any benefits.
    I pay all bills myself and support my wife and our 3 kids.
    I can understand where you coming from but just want to point out that not everybody looking out to milk this country and then piss off.
     
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