Engine & Gearbox Expedition Diesel Additives

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by ACC-CDI-2T, Thursday 6th Sep, 2012.

  1. ACC-CDI-2T Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

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    Maybe I´m a little bit crazy, but the last 5 years I spent scads of money for the testing of many diesel additives (lubricity- + cetane-improvers) on my I-CTDI - here my short report:

    I don´t really remember, what excactly was the offending object of these activities, but I think it was a report I read, about those BOSCH-high-pressure-pump failures on german cars in 2004 and the knowledge, that the same time bomb is working in my own wonderful japanese diesel engine, which had just left the warranty and now was ready to explode everytime and die a sudden, unexpected death ...:Aghast:. Pherhaps it also was my experimental impetus to improve existing things and save money in the end.

    O.K. , although the pump-desaster were caused by a manufactured charge with bad wear protection surfaces of some high loaded pumpparts and in the meanwhile biodiesel lubricated diesel displaced the low sulphered one ( ... which had really bad lubricity ...) I felt, that I would do something to prevent a expensive desaster, rising up in my head ...

    On my exploration trip through many different diesel-car-fora, I found out, that the best medicine to stop my stomache aches in a cheap and lasting way, would be the permanent adding of a low ash, mineral or semi-synthetic two-cycle-engineoil according to the JASO FB / ISO-L-EGB or JASO FC / ISO-L-EGC specification, promising the following key benefits adding to diesel (which are in the meanwhile proven features):

    • significant improvement of lubricity (HFRR-value improvement), protection from pump wear
    • prevents coking of injectors and cleans them (preservation of a good combustion)
    • protects the common rail system from corrosion
    • lower combustion noise
    • better engine start, smoother engine run esp. at cold ambient temperatures
    • less emissions, less soot, less EGR-problems

    Yes, I never found anyone, who said (using 2-cycle-engine-oil): HOUSTON, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY CR-SYSTEM !!! - The reverse seems to be true - best wear protection accompanied by some welcome side effects ...

    So in 2008 (~100.000 miles ago) I started my 2-cycle-engine-oil adding activities, exeperimenting with different oilsorts and different mixture ratios ...
    To take it to extremes, and to top the ignition / coldrun- and acceleration-performance at part throttle bandwith, I also searched for some additional cetane improvers / ignition accelerators for my I-CTDI as well.

    O.K. - Testresults (short):
    The 100.000 miles-every-time-basic-adding of 2-cycle-engineoil leaded to a slight engine run improvement, smoother coldrun and better ignition behaviour esp. in wintertime on the one hand - and the feeling, that I would never get a wear desaster on the other hand. (This rised up to a sureness :Smile:) I tested different mixture ratios between 1:250 - 1:100 and later fixed the ratio at ~1:200, which is the most common ratio and makes a slight, but perceptible sound improvement and a proven lubricity improvement as well. But it made no difference, which sort of oil I used, only in price - so I use a cheap one, but according to the spec.

    The results of the available ignition-accelarator-additives differed much more - summarized my test-results ranged from no effect (... some of them are really, really wasted money ...) to a significant improving of the coldrun- and accerleration performance at part throttle bandwith with some of the "2-Ethylhexyl-nitrate" (2EHN) - based cetane improvers !!

    All those tests lead me to my both really favorite mixtures (which had the same brilliant effect) - they seems to be I-CTDI´s favorite dish and really raises a small tiger in his tank :Smile::

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1. Full tank with standard Diesel
    + ~333 ml (~ 11.7 oz) 2-cycle-engine-oil
    + ~ 85 ml (~ 3.0 oz) WYNN`s Supremium Diesel Additive :Thumbup:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    2. Full tank with standard Diesel
    + ~333 ml (~ 11.7 oz) 2-cycle-engine-oil
    + ~ 85 ml (~ 3.0 oz) ERC Diesel Plus 1:1000 Additive :Thumbup:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here some links:

    Wynn Oil UK

    Diesel plus 1:1000

    One more proofable sign for me (that I´m really are on the right way with those mixtures) was the asthonished face of the engineer, who measured my soot emissions at last (acceptance test of my emissions) - he said, he had never seen such low soot emissions on a car with no diesel particulate filter this year ... I should have made a photo of him.

    Best Regards :Wave:
     
    Last edited: Friday 7th Sep, 2012
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  2. SayamaAccord Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    Many thanks for this.

    Other people have said they have found benefits from adding two-stroke oil to their diesel fuel, but I've never seen such a thorough and methodical analysis as this one.
     
  3. demon-knight Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Been using 2 stroke in my diesel for a few months now and its definitely runs quieter.

    I also have been using additives as well and with the combo have noticed that MPG goes from around 44 to 49.

    Am pleased with that not massive gains but for smoothness and quietness I agree with the OP.
     
  4. Jon_G Guest

    This seems to be something that has been widely discussed on many international and national internet motoring forums! Although I am naturally sceptical about the wisdom of adding something (anything) to such a well-engineered product as modern diesel, I have only read good things about doing so and - more importantly - I have never seen any claims of damage caused by doing so. While I haven't actually planned this, only this week I found myself with an unwanted container of 2T (just under 1L remaining) so have added 300mL to roughly meet the often-stated 1:200 ratio. I've only covered 12 miles so far, but am watching my own experiment with interest!
     
  5. Jon_G Guest

    I would call that a 'reasonably massive' gain. Do your calculations take account of the additional volume put into the tank (or are you reading from the trip computer)?

    Apologies for a tiny criticism, but by adding multiple things simultaneously you won't know which one is aiding the smoothness and quietness!
     
  6. Doc Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Matt Peterborough
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    I've been adding the 2 stroke for a few months now and it still surprises me just how quiet my engine is. After starting my engine from cold the characteristic diesel knock,while very minor anyway, has completely gone with 100 yards of driving. I certainly notice the difference when I forget to put it in and suddenly realise my engine sounds louder than usual. And I definitely noticed the difference when I pulled up beside a new diesel BMW, that knocked like a good'un. I would have expected mine to sound like that on 100k miles.

    I didn't put the 2 stroke in for economy and MPG's, but for the added lubrication of the fuel pump and injectors, and I'm very happy with the results. Form my own research I haven't noticed any discernible difference between using FB or FD grade oil.

    Some people say what's the point as oil companies make the best blends and doing it is just playing chemistry at home. But what they forget is oil companies have to comply to legislation regarding environmental impacts so they're not allowed to add sulphur to diesel, which is causing the lack of lubrication and failures of HP fuel pumps and injectors. If there wasn't legislation you would guarantee they'd be putting it in, They used to until they were forced to stop!

    If it's the 1st time you're adding 2 stroke and it's high mileage with a high soot build up it is possible to add up to 1 litre to a tank full of diesel to help increase the cleaning effect. But using on a regular basis a 1:200 mix is sufficient, about 250-300ml per tank full.
     
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  7. Jon_G Guest

    Hi Doc - I understand and accept the sulphur/lubrication benefit, but the cleaning effect is harder to for me to grasp...can you offer an explanation?
     
  8. Primarycare Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Good write up bud... I have some synthetic two stroke from an old RD left so might try it and dee how it goes, would seem it can't hurt none.. Again great write up :Thumbup:
     
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  9. ACC-CDI-2T Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

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    Oh, thanks - it´s great to hear, that some guys here enjoy 2-CEO as well ... :Smile:
     
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  10. Doc Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Matt Peterborough
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    The 2 stroke creates a more thorough and complete burn in the cylinder which greatly reduces the the amount of soot produced during combustion. So as mentioned earlier when you have an emissions test you end up with extremely low soot levels. But also due to the burn being so thorough it also burns away excess carbon build up in the engine. A useful side effect of the combustion being more thorough is improved efficiency so most people who add 2 stroke also report an increase in MPG's.

    I've seen many additives on the market over the years which claim to reduce smoke, knocking effects, clean this that and the other, or improve MPG's. But they all contain octane boosters or harsh cleaning chemicals which short or long don't do the engine any good or give the results they claim. The 2 stroke gives far greater and safer results than any of these bottles of wonder liquids with out any of the side effects.
     
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  11. Doc Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Matt Peterborough
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    You want to make sure it's semi synthetic not fully synthetic. Apparently the fully synthetic doesn't mix as well with the fuel, but I've never heard of anyone trying and proving that theory. Plus it's far more expensive with no improvement in results.
     
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  12. Jon_G Guest

    I'm using mineral - is that recommended?
     
  13. ACC-CDI-2T Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

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    Hi Jon, and thank you Doc - just a few words about fully synthetic 2-cycle-engine oils / the both no-gos:

    Mineral- and semi-synthetic 2-cycle-engine oils (ACC. to JASO FB + FC / ISO-L-EGB + ISO-EGC) are preferred in the "scene", cause they are cheap and blended with very few additives, which means, they have a very low (sulfated-) ash-content, such low, as dieseloil itsself. The lowest ash content (down to ~ 0.04 - 0.05 %) usually have the semi-synthetic one´s . They can be even used for diesel engines with a "closed" diesel particulate filter system (like HONDA´s new I-DTEC) but in this case one should have a look on the ash value (and the datasheet of the oil). But both oils (mineral + semi-synthetic ones) are perfect for the I-CTDI and the adding purpose :Thumbup:

    The fully synthetic one´s (often called "Racing-oils" and ISO-L-EGD oils), are mostly much more expensive and -as they are in most cases also higher blended - they do have a higher ash-content (up to 0.15 - 0.28 %). So they should not be used for closed particulate filter systems, but they could be even used for the I-CTDI, having no or the "open" particulate filter system (which cannot block) - but cause of the costs it makes really no sense to add them ...

    The absolutely no-go oils for this purpose are caster-oil- (ricinus-oil)-based 2-cycle-engine oils (spec. oils for carts etc..) - they should not be used in any case!
     
    Last edited: Saturday 8th Sep, 2012
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  14. Jon_G Guest

    Thanks for the reply. I am surprised that is is recommended to only use 2 stroke oils with the lower sulphate content - isn't it the sulphur compounds that bring the lubrication benefit?
     
  15. ACC-CDI-2T Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

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    2-cycle engine oil needs no additional sulfur - the oil itsself lubricates brilliant and improves the lubricity of diesel brilliant as well.

    But no oil (motoroil, 2ceo, dieseloil ...) fully burns down to 100% on combustion - the incombustible remaining ash consists of metal oxides and contaniments. In a special laboratory-test (by fuming off a sample of a oil with sulfuric acid at high temperature) the "sulfated ash content" can be determined e.g. for a datasheet - it indicates the level of metallic additives of the oil and is a "laboratory value".

    ... cause ash fills the diesel particulate filter those 2ceo´s with "lower sulfated ash content" are recommended for diesel engines with a "closed" particulate filter system ...
     
    Last edited: Saturday 8th Sep, 2012
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  16. SayamaAccord Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    8th Generation owners please take note.
     
  17. Doc Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Matt Peterborough
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    I have heard it's safe to use 2 stroke in the I-DTEC with a DPF but it MUST be JASO FD or equvalent.
     
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  18. ACC-CDI-2T Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

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    For the I-DTEC the decisive factor is a low ash content (the less the better) The oil should have a low sulfated ash content of round about 0.05 % - this is a good value. The oil could be a JASO FD, but must´nt - it depends on it´s ash content ... For permanent adding in the I-DTEC you should check this value before!! (data sheet) - one should not carry it to excess (every 2nd or 3rd fill with 1:200 should be sufficient for the I-DTEC ...) In most cases, the semi-synthetic JASO FC - oils have the best, low ash values ...

    I´m happy to have the I-CDTI - can use every one :Smile:
     
    Last edited: Monday 10th Sep, 2012
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  19. Primarycare Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Oil I have is Valvoline Fully synthetic two stroke. ACC- AND doc, what makes have you been trying? I might give the Valvloline a go as not much left anyway.

    Quite keen to try this out..

    Great posts guys..
     
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  20. micky Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆