Engine & Gearbox FR-V Intermittent slight power dips - 2.2 Diesel

Discussion in '1st Generation (2004-2011)' started by chazzb, Sunday 21st Aug, 2016.

  1. chazzb Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Berkshire
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    21
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    Hi,
    I've had our 55 plate FR-V from almost new. It has just about 100,000 miles.

    In the past few weeks, I've noticed slight dips in power when not applying increasing gas and decelerating. It's ever so slight (to the point where my wife didn't notice it until I pointed it out). Deceleration isn't always smooth, like the engine braking is kicking in too aggressively.

    The car is responsive when accelerating and the turbo kicks in fine. It seems to only happen when I'm steady/level on the gas, or coming off it. I read somewhere that it might be fuel filter issues so I replaced that a couple of weeks ago with a Honda OEM part but the problem remains. I also changed the air filter for good measure. Oil is done regularly (last done in April with 0W30 Castrol Edge) and all other fluids are topped up.

    Any ideas? I get the feeling this might be a simple fix.

    Thanks!
     
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  2. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    One of the issues I would check out first would be the EGR. On the CTDi engines, they can get clogged up and need removing to clean them properly. Quite a few members have done this with noticable differences in performance, smoothness and economy.

    There are quite a few guides on here already for cleaning of the valve. There is a CR-V one - EGR Valve and Cooling Pipe Clean Guide and a facelift Accord one - EGR clean - Facelift and a pre face lift one - EGR Valve Removal & Clean N22A1

    It is a simple thing to check, although a bit dirty. I ended up cleaning my throttle body too which also made a big difference.
     
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  3. chazzb Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Berkshire
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    Thanks for the super-quick response. This is definitely worth doing in any event, since the car is close to 98k miles and definitely hasn't had this done at the 70k mark.
     
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  4. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Put your car into the club garage, it will show under each post and help other members easily identify your vehicle and offer the best possible advice.

    Also, have a read of this thread - sounds like some of the things you have pointed out. This turned out to be his EGR, MAF and MAP sensor. You can read for yourself the end results and how effective a good cleaning session was.

    Throttle/Acceleration Issues + Rear Brake Binding (Engine & Gearbox - )
     
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  5. chazzb Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Berkshire
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    I've done the MAF and MAP sensors and have ordered the gaskets from Honda to do the EGR. The MAF sensor was particularly filthy so a good clean won't have done that any harm. A quick drive around the block certainly confirms that the car is till operational at least! Too short a journey to tell if it has solved the issue.

    I'll reply back with the results once I've done the EGR at the weekend.
     
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  6. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Stoke
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    Sounds to me like EGR. Exhaust gas should only be allowed back into the intake when not accelerating and to a point that is no detriment to the running of the engine. The valve should close instantly with the slightest throttle response, but when they stick you get similar symptoms to this. The valves were improved and a software update applied to change the operation cycle to reduce the chance of sticking. To memory this was within the year of your vehicle. You may or may not have the later EGR valve and software. However due to your cars Mileage/age it is well out of warranty and this part could well have become defective over normal ownership. I hope a clean will be successful but be prepared to have to buy a new EGR valve and consider booking into a Honda dealer to check for software updates.
     
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  7. chazzb Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Berkshire
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    Hi Beefy, thanks for the detailed, knowledgeable response. I do remember the car being recalled for an EGR replacement waaaaay back pretty soon after we first bought it. It probably just needs a good clean as that hasn't been done in what is now nearly 100k miles.
     
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  8. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    I used Tunap EGR cleaner which I ordered from @Holdcroft Honda . Stuff was brilliant. You won't use anywhere near the total amount of the can and will have plenty left over, but its good stuff all the same

    20160822_165805.

    You can see how it works on the project log of my Accord - Nighthawk's CTDi | Page 8 (Accord/7th Generation - )

    Halfway down the page.
     
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  9. chazzb Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Berkshire
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    @knighthawk - what's the thinking on Wynn's EGR cleaner spray? It looks a bit like flushing crap and strong chemicals through the engine which seems a bit dodgy to me.
     
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  10. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Personally the only way to clean it properly is to remove it. @Beefy is a Honda technician so I would take his advice as gospel which way would be better
     
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  11. chazzb Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Berkshire
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    Ok, so I did the EGR clean today, and as you'll see below it was really needing it.

    I used the excellent guide here: EGR Valve and Cooling Pipe Clean Guide

    The guide recommends changing the gaskets marked 13 and 5. I also did 8 and 9 for the sake of a few quid. I totally overlooked 7 or I'd have done that too.

    The Honda part numbers are:
    • 5: 18715-RMA-E01 @ £7.10
    • 8: 18718-RMA-E01 @ £6.00
    • 9: 18719-RMA-E01 @ £3.71
    • 13: 18726-RMA-E01 @ £6.00
    Including VAT, the price was £27.37

    First off, here's the pipe at position/gasket 9. It was really clogged up. One question I do have (@Beefy) is that the engine side here was greased up with this sludge. Looks like it could do with a good strip down and clean. Is this recommended?

    IMG_20160903_102301.

    This is the underside of the EGR valve, being full Kate Moss (coked up).

    IMG_20160903_103015.

    The inside of the EGR valve looking like it needs a clean.

    IMG_20160903_103109.

    This is the engine side at the point of Gasket 8, showing the sludge which I did my best to clean out.

    IMG_20160903_104617.

    After some Tunap 926 worked its magic, the inside looked like this.

    IMG_20160903_114849.

    ...and the underside of the valve, after Tunap 926, and mid-decoking.

    IMG_20160903_114857.

    A bit of wire wool and elbow grease on the faces to make sure they are flush to the gaskets...

    IMG_20160903_114912.

    ...and finally reassembled to go back in.

    IMG_20160903_120111.

    The car started first time, and seems to be okay so far. Hard to tell if it's totally solved the issue, but it definitely won't have hurt!

    Thanks to Knighthawk and Beefy for the diagnosis and link to the guide.
     
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  12. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Good work, glad it cleaned it all out, that was rather clogged up. What are your thoughts on the Tunap 926? Effective?
     
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  13. chazzb Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Berkshire
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    The Tunap was great. I did nothing on the actual shiny bit of the valve itself - Tunap cleared that right out. I just had to clean the other areas.
     
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  14. chazzb Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Berkshire
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    I've just been out for a five mile round trip to the supermarket and the car is a LOT better. The power delivery is smooth and coming off the gas is also smooth. The dips in power seem to have now disappeared. So, thanks once again!
     
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  15. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Stoke
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    The engine side is the intake manifold. Yes it would benefit from a clean as it will be in as bad a state as the EGR pipe work. Ideally this should be done whilst the pipe work you removed is.......removed. Glad it's better though
     
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  16. chazzb Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Berkshire
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    21
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    Thanks @Beefy. I cleaned it as best I could but I could feel it was quite gunky inside. Is there a recommended way to clean it in place, or should it be taken out?
     
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  17. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Stoke
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    Needs removing I'm affraid. You can't get any cleaning products or carbon deposits down the ports. A nice job for another day now you are familiar in removing the EGR pipe work.
     
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  18. chazzb Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Berkshire
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    21
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    Taking your advice, @Beefy . So my plan is this:
    1. Take off the EGR pipework again.
    2. Take off the injector thingy on the top of the intake manifold
    3. Take off the swirl valve and clean (removing the MAP sensor first and cleaning separately)
    4. Take off the intake manifold
    5. Clean all gunky stuff out with brake cleaner
    6. Reassemble
    Anyone see any issues with this? I can't find a howto/DIY guide anywhere, so I'm partly winging it.
     
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  19. Ben28 Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Ben Shetland
    162
    107
    I was asking my local garage for a quote for this as I would probably screw it up.
    He was trying to sell me a fuel additive for £22 which he said would probably do the trick.
    Yes / No, Maybe?

    Cheers
    B
     
  20. Zub131 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Hey, would it be possible to get a picture of what the valve and pipe look like when all connected up just so i know what to look for?

    Cheers
     
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