Off-Topic Fuel consumption down amidst so called reduced fuel price

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by Ichiban, Wednesday 3rd Oct, 2012.

  1. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Today article on BBC just shows the real recession is now kicking in and taking a more protracted grip on peoples wallets. When the recession starred in 2008 the mood was gloomy to slight optimistic and now these figures just shows the bottom is near and this Christmas is going to be extremely hard for the retailers.

    I have to be honest my work has put strict embargo on business travel, I am using the phone more and even using remote tools to my advantage.

    My petrol bill from £200 week now is down to 90 pounds a week, which suits me just fine more money in my pocket. I have also stopped unnecessary drives and weekend and spend more time at home with the family and friends close by.

    How many of you have stopped using the cars on regular basis as the prices have now become just ridiculous.
     
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  2. AccordCU2 Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    I barely use my car except for holidays.Last week i used it 2 days to go to shopping,rest of the week its been parked on the drive.
     
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  3. Primarycare Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Primary c Northampton
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    There has been little change for me. I notice the costs creeping up and rarely going down.

    I probably am doing about 1800 - 2000 miles a month but cutting back has been on my mind for a wee while now.

    Don't know how you petrol boys and girls cope much as I would like one the thought of 350 - 400 miles on a tank stops me then there is the damn road tax! But don't start me on that one...
     
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  4. RobB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Just come back from france and diesel is £1.08 a litre so I made sure my last stop was the petrol station before the port.
     
  5. Dave Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    I put 534 litres in at motorway services on tuesday morning and erm well its about gone now, glad I don't have to pay the bill was over £800 :Frown: It's seriously crippling our industry big time. Our goverment is a rip off if the French can sell it at over 40p a litre less!!
     
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  6. Doc Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Matt Peterborough
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    You want to be careful which fuel you fill up with in France. They have 2 types: the sort we have, and bio fuel which I think is classed as '85', ie 15% bio ethanol fuel. Basically even the French don't use the bio ethanol fuel because it's well documented over there it knacker your engine. Unfortunately the tourists hoping to top up on cheap fuel before their return trip aren't aware of the difference.
     
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  7. RobB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Around northern France I never saw bio fiuel available just 95 sans plomb (unleaded) 98 sans plomb and gazole (diesel).
     
  8. G12 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Penryn
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    You can buy E85 in a few places in the UK. I believe the likes of SAAB and Volvo make cars that run on it if required.

    Random fact - Brazil use a huge amount of E85 in their cars as opposed to petrol/diesel.
     
  9. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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  10. RobB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    The US has introduced bio-ethanol as well.
    I remember in Florida last year there being about 5 or 6 different fuels at the pumps.
     
  11. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    E10 fuel has already started to be shipped to petrol stations across the UK since first week of February.

    Petrol station have to display this by default

    UNLEADED PETROL
    95 E10
    Not suitable for all vehicles: consult vehicle manufacturer before use BS EN 22

    Common ethanol fuel mixtures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I will have to make sure I don't use it in my first gen .
     
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  12. Quacker Banned ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    DERV to EN590 specification, which is the standard road diesel spec in the UK, has had 7% biofuel included for several years now. It is nothing to worry about and, if anything, has better lubricity and cleaning properties than pure oil-based fuel.

    EN 590 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    Last edited: Wednesday 13th Feb, 2013
  13. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    True however Diesel powered vehicles cannot use E10 as it ethanol, this will damage all petrol cars pre 1993. I can see a lot of old classic cars stranded on the hard shoulder from now on.

    The worst is after its layup time classic cars petrol pipes will perish or bulge as the alcohol will be eating into it..

    copied this from Piston head

    When I had my 2nd Generation restored it would not run properly and there was contamination in the fuel filter, after several tries at a remedy we found it was the fuel tank that had been "attacked" by the ethanol in the fuel. We wrote to Shell querying this fuel and this was there reply:

    Unfortunately the simple answer to your questions is that 'There isn't a simple answer'. The Issues you raise are certainly real issues for vintage car owners. The fuel we sell will continue to comply with the relevant fuel standards and specifications as it did previously. The finished petrol will meet the UK gasoline standard EN228, and the maximum amount of ethanol blended into the fuel will be in line with this and the RTFO (renewable fuel transport obligation - 5% max). However that doesn't really help owners of vintage vehicles. There are serveral things you can do to minimise the effects of ethanol. Firstly run a non-alcohol based fuel stabilizer all year round. As you say, older engines were designed primarily for straight gasoline, and using ethanol without protection may cause corrosion of some metals in the engine. It also may damage natural rubber and cork parts. Fuel Stabilizers (I believe Stabil do a product) contain additives to protect against rust and corrosion caused by ethanol fuel blends. If practical Install a water separation filter and fuel filter, and replace fuel lines, gaskets or o-rings with new ethanol resistant materials. Similarly replace the fuel tank if necessary with one made from an ethanol resistant material.

    In terms of laying up the vehicle; Assuming the above measures are in place (I cannot make a laying up procedure if they are not, as it simply would not be advisable with fuel containing ethanol), I would suggest filling the fuel tank to about 95% of its capacity with fuel, rather than leaving the fuel tank low. This minimizes; the tank-breathing effect, the loss of volatile components and the ingress of moisture into the fuel tank. The later in extreme cases can cause the appearance of free-water in the fuel.

    If a fuel is to be stored in a motor vehicle fuel tank, then maintaining fuel quality is important in order to maintain good start-up and a good level of vehicle driveability. When an engine fails to start after a period of lay up, it may be less to do with fuel deterioration, and could be related to un-seasonal fuel, which may not be sufficiently volatile to start the engine from cold. Non volatile residues are often observed in the fuel tank, delivery system and/or carburetors in cases of severe evaporative loss of a gasoline. The residue can manifest itself as either a gum or lacquer-like film or deposit, or a gel-like substance. This residue would be a combination of low-volatility constituents and detergent additives that are found in gasoline, but concentrated after evaporation. We do not advise storing fuels in vehicles for more than 6 months. You should also take into account the differences between summer and winter grades of petrol. Petrol has a higher volatility in the winter in order to enable cold starting. For this reason it is better to fill the tank with a winter grade fuel (16th October - 14th April) rather than a summer grade.




    Sheila De'Ath
    Technical Information Services
    Shell U.K. Oil Products Limited
    Registered in England and Wales
    Registered Number : 3625633
    Registered office: Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA
    Correspondence Address:
    Shell UK Oil Products Ltd,
    Rowlandsway House,
    Rowlandsway,
    Manchester M22 5SB,
    United Kingdom.
    Tel: +44 8708 500 924 Fax: +44 (1)161 933 3233
    Email: productinfo-uk@shell.com
    Internet: www.shell.com
     
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  14. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    Interesting info there CJ :Thumbup:
     
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  15. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    I have asked Honda technical what changes I need to make on my 1st Generation for it to work, there is a lot of fear in classic car community over this and not a lot of " What can I do " there is a lot of this around the web

    The resultant problems for vehicles not compatible with E10 include:
    • Fuel filter blockage and increased wear of fuel system components: Ethanol acts as a solvent loosening abrasive deposits.
    • Galvanic corrosion: Ethanol is more highly conductive compared to hydrocarbons leading to corrosion if electrically dissimilar metals are present in the fuel system.
    • Air/Fuel mixture problems: Ethanol contains about 35% oxygen, so the air/fuel mixture has to be adjusted otherwise the vehicle will run lean which could cause drive-ability problems and overheating.
    • Drive-ability: E10 blends can be more volatile, causing hot problems (poor hot starting, hesitation etc) and cold weather problems (vaporisation problems).
    • Deposit formation: Inlet system and combustion chamber deposits have been reported with the use of E5 and E10 blends compared to E0.
    • Material compatibility: Some materials used in fuel system components are less compatible with ethanol in fuel resulting in loss of structural integrity, swelling and softening of materials (some older glass-fibre petrol tanks and tank sealants will melt).
    • Ethanol holds more dissolved water and associated impurities leading to corrosion of metallic components.
     
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  16. excel monkey Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Epsom
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    Do you want French income taxes and autoroute tolls, as well?
     
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  17. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Right gents after years and years of using Shell fuels Vpower Nitro+ I am ditching them for BPUL BP Ultimate Unleaded this is one of the only fuel which is 100% petroleum and no ethanol.

    After meeting a few old school owners of first gen Honda owners, I have seen and heard first hand the horrors of this sodding ethanol. Just ordered my nectar card so I still collect some points.

    Nice knowing you Shell.