General Honda HDD Navi Installation - Help Required

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by RogerH69, Tuesday 11th Oct, 2016.

  1. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    I'm not sure if this is in the correct place, but it's not (at the moment) specific to any specific Honda. When I install it in my Civic, then I suppose information itne the thread may be skewed more to a 7th Generation Civic... @Staff if you feel this should be moved, please feel free.

    Anyways.... I bought a cracking Honda HDD Navi (08A40-2L6-100), plus official Honda bluetooth accessory at a REAL bargain price, and having opened it up, read the installation instructions (for an FK Civic) and the extra (VERY helpful) information sent to me, I have a few questions.

    20161011_192702.

    This unit was installed in a Ford C-Max (I think) previously, so the wiring harness has been cut and spliced to work in a C-Max. Also, I think part of the wiring harness is missing (as I seem to be missing part of it compared to the installation instructions). Nonetheless, from what I understand, I 'simply' need to cut the modified HDD Navi wiring harness and splice it up with the correct wires for the wiring harness / adaptor currently in use on my Civic (with a Pioneer head unit).

    To better explain what I am referring to with my questions, I've included some pictures.

    In the image below -
    1 = GPS antenna
    2 = modified wiring harness (big black end connected to C-Max. Blue end goes into the HDD Navi
    2a = 4 Wires come out of the connector plug on this, which are not used (confirmed this in the circuit diagram sent to me with the unit)
    3 = Navi Harness. This has also been cut it seems (compared to install instructions), as both ends should have connector plugs on them, but only one does)
    3a = seems to be where the Navi harness was modified, with the connector plug being cut off. Has 3 wires (orange, brown and blue)
    4 = Connector cable for the Honda Bluetooth accessory (BUS Cord)
    5 = Honda bluetooth accessory (HFT ECU)
    5a = Microphone (very short cable, even though install docs say MIC and bluetooth box go on separate sides of the car...) (MIC)
    5b = Another mono audio plug (SUB Cord)
    20161011_192140.

    So... questions I have about the parts above are -
    3a - Circuit Diagram that came with the unit (see extracts below), shows the Navi harness as having Blue, Brown and a Light Blue wires, whereas in fact it has Orange, Purple and Blue.
    Questions -
    1 - Does BLUE on the Navi harness goto Speed Sensor ?
    2 - Does PURPLE on the Navi harness goto hand brake ?
    3 - What does ORANGE on the Navi harness connect to ?

    20161011_201616. 20161011_201622.

    The next 3 questions refer to picture of cables above, as well as circuit diagram extract below
    4 - Does it matter which end of the BUS cord plugs into HDD Navi? One of them is at 90 degrees, and the other is straight, but connector plugs are the same
    5a - Am I correct in assuming the MIC plugs into the IN port on the Bluetooth Accessory ?
    5b - Am I correct in assuming the SUB Cord goes from the OUT port on the Bluetooth Accessory to port 1 on the rear of the HDD Navi (See below) ?
    20161011_201427.

    I have also included a picture of the rear of the HDD Navi unit, as I do not know what all the port are for.
    20161011_192733.

    1 - Is this for SUB Cord from the Bluetooth Accessory ?
    2 - Apple connector cable, which I am not using
    3 - Navi harness
    4 - GPS Antenna
    5 - BUS Cord
    6 - Wiring harness
    7 - What's this for ?
    8 - What's this for ?
    9 - Car antenna
    Not shown - where do I connect my reversing camera (RCA plug) and Dashcam DVR (RCA plug)
    Not shown - where do I connect my steering wheel controls ?

    In addition to the questions above, I was also wondering what would happen if I didn't connect the speed sensor wire of the Navi harness ? What would and what wouldn't work ? (I realize I already asked this in my project log, but thought best to keep all questions in one place).

    I initially thought I would have to go ahead and buy an attachment kit (which includes wiring harness) for this unit, but I think that if I can answers to the questions above, I should be able to get this done myself (very slowly and carefully), even if (for the moment) it will not support my reversing camera and dashcam DVR.
     
    Last edited: Tuesday 11th Oct, 2016
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  2. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    OEM Sat Nav units need the speed signal.
     
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  3. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    Thanks @SpeedyGee
    - - - Updated - - -
    Just added a question I forgot - where to connect my steering wheel controls
    - - - Updated - - -
    Also, should I mount the GPS antenna under the dash, or on top? When I had my Pioneer Nav unit fitted, they put hte antenna on the metal crossbar under the dash, but I kept struggling to get a satellite lock, and also lost satellite lock as soon as clouds appeared. I moved this antenna on top of the dash, right in the corner by the windscreen air vents, and after that, had no issues with satellite lock.
     
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  4. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    The sensor should be on the dash so it has clear line of sight to satellites.
     
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  5. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    There will never be straight forward instructions on how to fit to your car as the unit was never fitted to your year Civic. I will have another look across the accessory instructions available for the different models the unit WAS fitted too. In my rush to get it out to you I may have over looked the face an FK1 harness is slightly different. As you have picked up on, I've adapted the harness to fit a ford multi plug. The wires not connected from the standard plug are for steering controls (ford use can/bus) so had to be routed to a converter in order to produce a signal this unit can understand. Has your car got the same main harness connector as the sat nav unit?
     
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  6. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    3a - for an FK this harness is different and plugs into the MICU therefore different wire colour. Accessory search is down at the moment so I can't advise right this moment on what wires do what. Obviously if I was fitting it for you this would not be a problem. But explaining over a forum how to adapt everything and make a project log to boot is a tad difficult. I haven't fitted a camera to this unit before so that's a new one on me too. I will of course help out where I can, you will have to bare with me I'm afraid.
    - - - Updated - - -
    the main harness connector (2a) is your main concern. Get that hooked up first. I suspect comparing it to your cars connector it will be the same. You can enter the NAV's dial menu and view to feed in from the handbrake and VSS. You will know what wire is what on harness 3a when applying the handbrake you get a feed on screen. Likewise driving forward, when the correct wire is connected the signal will change to ON
     
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  7. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    I should b able to match colours upby looking at the pin bumbers on the connecor on the Navi harness and comparing the circuit diagram you sent. This way I will know which of the 3 wires go to speed sensor and handrake. I just can't figure out from circuit diagram what it is that the third wire connects to.

    Also, when I got the Pioneer unit fitted. I had to get a Steering wheel stalk adaptor (I got one for the CR-V as it was apparenty same as mine) as well as a pioneer stalk patch lead.I'll have to take pioneer unit out and see what these plug into. When you say Ford uses CAN/BUS, does that refer to a special type of connector ?
    - - - Updated - - -
    When you say 'the signal will change to ON' what do you mean ?
     
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  8. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    This afternoon, after work, I'm going to go through to the barn and take out the Pioneer unit and any extra harnesses / adaptors to see what the harness looks like as standard.
     
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  9. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    @Beefy , I located my original OEM stereo that came with the Civic, and can confirm that the harness plugs are the same on the Civic Stereo (39101-S6A-X010-M1). I even plugged the HDD Navi harness into the Civic stereo and it fit with no issues.
    CivicStereoRear.

    I don't know if this is a good thing or not. I assume that I can't simply plug the Civic's harness into the HDD Navi, because I would guess the pins match up to different functions than they do on the OEM Civic Stereo.

    I also removed the Pioneer stereo and confirmed that it is connected to the Civic harness with a harness adaptor
    PioneerHarness.

    Assuming that I 'simply' need to match wires on HDD Navi to correct wires on Civic Harness, I will use this harness adaptor to connect to the matching wires on the HDD Navi. So, if I am correct, then most of the connections will be a simple matter of matching up 2 circuit diagrams (HDD Navi and Civic harness).

    While poking around in the dash, I also saw the steering wheel controls stalk adaptor that I purchased. It comprises three wires, which plug into a convertor, and then the convertor has a single casble coming out of it, which looks a 3.5mm microphone jack, which goes into the Pioneer stereo.
    CivicStalkAdapor01. CivicStalkAdaptorDetail.

    The stalk adaptor plugs into the Pioneer harness adaptor as shown below
    CivicStalkAdaptorWires01. CivicStalkAdaptorWires02.

    Seeing as the HDD Navi does not use the same connector as the Pioneer for steering wheel controls (but rather uses pins on the main harness), I no longer need the stalk adaptor and will remove it. I simply need to find out which wires I need to match up. I just need to try and find a circuit diagram for the HDD Navi that details which wires are for steering wheel controls (not shown on the circuit diagrams I have currently). I might be able to match this up by comparing the wiring on the main harness from the car that the HDD Navi was designed for (the 2009 Civic IMA Hybrid, or the 2009 CR-V I think ?). Not sure if these are available on HK, if they are, could someone point me to them (I will search for them obviously)?

    This shows the Civic Harness (which has 15 wires going into it)
    Civic-Harness01. Civic-Harness02.

    And this shows the HDD Navi harness (which has 16 wires going into it)
    HDD-Navi-Harness01. HDD-Navi-Harness02.

    As you can see, the 2 harnesses do not match up exactly, and one has an extra wire in it, so I can't just plus the Civic harness into the HDD Navi (if only life were that easy :Smile: ). I'm going to start to try and match up the wires to each other.
     
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  10. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    I've recorded the wires on the HDD Navi harness, according to their location (and then matched to the circuit diagram I received with the unit) to the following -
    HDDNaviHarness.

    If anyone would be able to tell me what 1, 11, 12 and 13 went to, I will then have a full map of the HDD Navi Harness. What IS RASW POWSU? This is where is appears on the circuit diagram... ANTAMP? Antenna Amplifier maybe? Green is the Navi Harness (wire in position 1). Actually, I think this MAY actually be for the antenna....
    RASW POWSU.
     
    Last edited: Wednesday 12th Oct, 2016
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  11. Pottermus Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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  12. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    Wow, I cannot believe how I am struggling to get a wiring diagram for a 2004 Civic (never mind a 2004 EV1 Civic with steering wheel controls) explaining what the wires on the stereo wire harness do. So far, I have been able to deduce the following (the only reason I know wire 3 is purely for steering wheel controls is because it's plugged into pin 3 of the Pioneer harness adaptor and that pin is empty (while pins 10 and 20 share with steering wheel controls stalk adaptor - so assuming they are power and ground)
    CivicHarness.

    My brain hurts now, so going to bed. Will pick this up tomorrow.
    - - - Updated - - -
    Just had a thought... as I can't seem to find an accurate description of the harness for my car, I'll have a look at what the wires are in the Pioneer head unit, match those to the wires in the pioneer harness adaptor, and then in turn match that to the Civic harness. Sounds like a plan.... :Smile:
    - - - Updated - - -
    Crap - forgot about my powered sub... no RCA out for that.... I guess I'll have to splice it in with the rear speakers....
     
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  13. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    A colleague at work has been doing some digging for me, and is also struggling to find info on the main harness for my Civic. He did however find the following for a 2002 CR-V. Though my Civic uses more of wires, the wires that do match have the same colours on the CR-V and Civic. I think this will definitely help me eliminate some of the wires on the Civic harness (plus I 'know' which 2 wires are to do with Steering Wheel controls already), so I'm slowly making progress :Smile:
    Wiring Diagram crv honda.

    I also THINK I know what the third wire on the Navi Harness (number 3 in the picture of parts received with HDD Navi in original post). I'm thinking that it goes to a signal from gearbox to indicate reverse gear engaged (I figured this because it goes to something labelled as BK/U LT on the HDD Navi wiring diagram)... This would mean that for the 3 wires in the Navi harness -

    1 is Speed Signal
    2 is Handbrake Signal
    3 is Reverse gear signal

    Just gotta figure out WHICH of them are 1, 2 and 3....
     
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  14. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    Dang brain hurts again !!

    Took Pioneer unit out again (and made a big tear in the carbon wrap on the dash trim :disagree::Rant: so removed that now) and got some pictures of the ISO Harness that's plugged between the Civic harness and the Pioneer harness. I then match the wire colours from Pioneer harness to ISO Harness, and then in turn to Civic Harness, and using the wiring diagram that came with the installation manual for the Pioneer head unit, I have been able to map out all of the STANDARD wires on the Civic Harness to their function. I also compared this to the above example of the 2002 CR-V harness, with matching colours (mostly) and this confirmed I had matched up correctly.
    2002 CR-V Wire ColoursCivic WiresPinISO Harness WiresPioneer WiresFunctionPioneer Wires Matches CR-V Pinout ?
    Yellow/GreenYellow/Green1Blue???Antenna Remote (says on ISO Harness wire)Yes
    Yellow/RedRed/Yellow2RedRedACCYes
    EMPTYGreen/Red3GreyN/ASWheel3EMPTY
    EMPTYWhite/Red4EMPTYEMPTY
    PinkCream5VioletVioletRearRight +veYes
    Blue/WhiteGreen/White6GreenGreenRearLeft +veYes
    Green/YellowGreen/Yellow7GreyGreyFrontRight +veYes
    Green/BlackGreen/Black8WhiteWhiteFrontLeft +veYes
    Red/BlackRed/Black9OrangeOrange/WhiteIlluminationYes
    White/RedCream/Red10Yellow AND RedYellowConstant 12V AND SWheel2Yes
    EMPTY11EMPTYEMPTY
    EMPTY12EMPTYEMPTY
    EMPTY13EMPTYEMPTY
    EMPTY14EMPTYEMPTY
    Blue/YellowGreen?/Yellow Eh?15Violet/BlackViolet/BlackRearRight -veYes
    Blue/BlackGreen/Black16Green/BlackGreen/BlackRearLeft -veYes
    Grey/RedBrown/Red17Grey/BlackGrey/BlackFrontRight -veYes
    AquaLt Green18White/BlackWhite/BlackFrontLeft -veYes
    RedEMPTY19EMPTY?
    BlackBlack20Black AND BlackBlackGround AND SWheel 1Black
    Still to match up from Pioneer Wiring Diagram
    Violet/WhiteReverse Gear switch
    Yellow/BlackFor use with equipment that has Audio Mute
    Lt GreenParking Brake
    Blue/WhiteSystem Control of AMP
    So I only have 4 wires from the Pioneer Headunit that I have to trace, but they aren't on the Civic Harness itself, so I should be able to start matching Civic harness to HDD Navi harness :Smile:

    In addition, once i have the unit (mostly) plugged in, I can use the Test function on the HDD Navi to find out which of the 3 wires on the Navi Harness do what. With the ignition off and handbrake down, I'll connect one of the wires to the handbrake, turn on ignition, go into test mode on HDD Navi, engage handbrake and see if Parking Brake returns 'Ok. If not, repeat with the other 2 wires. Once I know which is handbrake, I do same thing with reverse switch. Then that also tells me which is the speed signal wire.

    To connect Dashcam DVR and Reverse camera, I will have to find the right connector plug for the rear of the HDD Navi, and then find a way to convert from RCA to the connector that fits the HDD Navi (assuming I can figure out which of the 2 unknown connectors on the rear of the HDD Navi I need to use)
     
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  15. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    3 = VSS = Speed sensor Diagram is saying tap off pin13 on ECU
    4 Reverse wire tapping betwen the reverse switch and the reverse bulb (ie you can tap off the positive side of the reverse bulb)
    5 is handbrake

    Not sure if this page helps any with identifying connectors http://www.navtool.com/manual_DVIHA-HDD.pdf
     
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  16. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    Thanks @SpeedyGee . The only issue I have is that the colour of the wires as detailed on the circuit diagram do not match up to the colours of the actual wires on the Navi Harness. Also, the instructions I got the wiring diagram from were from a 2008 Civic, so I assume pin13 on ECU may well be different to my ECU ? I'm going to determine where each of the 3 wires go by trial and error, as they do not need to be plugged in for the unit to actually turn on and go into test mode.

    That page doesn't help unfortunately.

    From what I can tell, I think I have everything I need to get the HDD Navi unit installed and turning on. I then simply have to connect the steering wheel controls and Navi Harness cables once I figure out the wires by trial and error (3 wires for each)
     
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  17. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

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  18. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    Seems A18 is the one to go for. Not sure where to find this connector to splice into though. That said, @Beefy kindly included an extract of the EV1 circuit diagram for the dash clocks, which shows which wire (Blue/White) I need to splice into. This however seems to goto A12. I can see however, that this is connected to VSS, so seems like the correct wire to connect to.
    20161014_084500.
     
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  19. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

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    Wire colours can't be relied upon. Ideally you need to probe for the signal or as a simple test as Beefy suggested