General Honda Radiators and Honda Coolants ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ichiban, Tuesday 25th Jun, 2013.

  1. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,169
    6,403
    516
    I had a frantic and somewhat heated telephone conversation this morning from one our member who changed the coolant on his 5th Generation Accord a few weeks back based on my recommendations. He was panicking over some blurb he read on another Honda forum about some concerns of backward compatibility of the two types of coolant and has a lot of concerns on the long term effects and its potential to set off internal corrosion.

    I have reassured Michael there is nothing to panic about. Honda do not upgrade a fluid without taking a lot of factors into consideration and any changes in fluid specification is extremely thought out and subjected to rigorous Honda testing. Every upgrade is subjected to a very stringent testing for regional compliance before it’s vetted by a few levels of management and then a subsequent staggered global role out. This testing would have been very exhaustive and will be documented with proof. I told him leave it with me I will find all the necessary information on this subject and post it on our forum with FACTs to reassure him and may be set the record straight for others.
    This is all over some twit trying to blind people with unnecessary science and suggest these coolants are not backward compatibility purely based on colour.I have had a read of that misguided statement and find it very amusing to say the least. It not even based on one technical fact but a mere hunch and speculation. So what is this fuss all about!

    The Types of Coolants

    The older long life coolant which was green in colour Honda part number 08CLA-G01-8L0 (This part has been discontinued by Honda) and the newer type 2 coolant which is blue in colour Honda part number 08CLA-G02-6L0.

    Honda Radiators and the manufacturer

    I found this really interesting article on Denso's website regarding radiators, majority of us know Denso is a 100% owned Toyota subsidiary and is a major player in the OEM automotive market and supplies every single Japanese car manufacturer with components and even Honda.

    A very high percentage of radiators are made by Denso for our cars, rather than copying the information read the facts about radiators. It’s in simple English and precise Looking After Your Radiator | denso.

    Why did Honda Change the coolant?

    In an internal Honda communication on the 8th of July 2004 this was posted on their internal intranet.

    Subject :-Colour Change of All Season Antifreeze / Coolant Type 2
    Information
    The colour of Honda genuine All Season Antifreeze / Coolant Type-2, which has been in use in all factories from 2001YM (year model), will change from green to dark blue. The new coolant will be used in factories according to the schedule shown.

    CountryFactorySupplier of coolantSchedule of changeover
    JapanSssCCI-JThe beginning of July, 2004
    CssCCI-JThe mid of July, 2004
    USAHAM MVCCI-IL28th June, 2004
    HAM ELCCI-IL
    HAM ALCCI-ILJul-04
    CanadaHCMPL#1CCI-IL
    HCMPL#2CCI-IL21st June, 2004
    MexicoHDMCCI-ILJul-04
    BrazilHDBCCI-ILAugust, 2004
    UKHUMCCI-UK/PetrochemSeptember, 2004
    TurkeyHTCCI-UK/PentosinAugust, 2004
    ChinaG-HACCCI-JJul-04
    WA-HACCCI-J
    TaiwanHTW-PCCI-J
    ThaiHATCCCI-AUTOAugust, 2004
    MalaysiaOACCI-JJuly or August, 2004
    IndonesiaHPMCCI-JJul-04
    PhilippineHCPICCI-J
    PakistanHACPLCCI-AUTOAugust or September, 2004
    IndiaHSCISunstar CCIAugust, 2004
    As you can see this are a worldwide change and not a European thing.

    The change concerns only the colour of the fluid; there are no changes to the characteristics of the coolant.

    Reasons for Change

    Easier Identification. The colour change will enable easier differentiation between Honda genuine coolant and other aftermarket products that are green in colour.

    Important Note
    During the changeover from green to blue colour coolant at factory, the bulk storage tanks will be run down to 30% green before being filled with blue fluid. This means that during production some cars will have a mix of green to blue in the ratio 30:70 or less.

    The mix of blue and green coolant has no effect on coolant performance.

    The picture below gives an indication of the appearance of the mixed blue and green coolants in various ratios.

    Apologies for the poor quality of image this is what was found.
    Honda Type 2 low res AOCUK.JPG



    Honda MSDS sheets for the two types of Coolant
    As per the recommendation based on Denso radiators these coolants still contain the correct balance of ethylene glycol content there is no change to it primary function nor does it constitute any diminished anti corrosive properties.



    What do I do if I see things floating in my radiator bits or particles on the rubber gasket on the radiator cap?
    Do a sniff test for C02 in the coolant that will give you an indication is combustion gasses are entering the coolant which could be a potential issue with the head gasket.
    If that happens the coolant will turn acidic in turn attacking into the seals, gaskets, metal surfaces and other components which are not internally machined to a smooth finish like castings.
    You can get Ph value testers to test the Ph value of the coolant and determine is the coolant is still serviceable. Lastly just read that Denso radiator article and memorise it.

    Hope this clear the air on this subject:Smile: For all those doubters and arm chair experts Honda does not do poor engineering get that into your head:Wink:
     

    Attached Files:

    Loading...
    exec and AndyB1976 like this.
  2. AndyB1976 Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    United Kingdom Andy Aberfoyle
    798
    540
    5
    Cheers for this...always had a bit of a worry at my first coolant drain when green fluid poured out but blue went in. :Thumbup:


    Andy.
     
    Loading...
    Ichiban likes this.
  3. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,169
    6,403
    516
    I haven't seen one but I was told there was a customer awareness placard in all Honda Parts departments to reassure customers of this coolant change. If anyone has seen this placard\banner please upload the pictures.

    The reasoning behind this change was to combat counterfeiting of the genuine honda coolant which is rife in Asia Oceania region and eastern european markets.

    By changing the colour the counterfeiters had a tough time.
     
    Loading...
  4. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,169
    6,403
    516
    Bump for anyone planing to change coolant in their Honda's , there is no need for confusion which part number to chose from.
     
    Loading...
    AndyB1976 likes this.
  5. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,169
    6,403
    516
    Copying the content from the denso site , as the link seems very slow and unresponsive. Copied via google cache.

    Looking After Your Radiator
    It is imperative that the correct coolant is used and that it is well maintained to ensure long life from your radiator. Coolants must not be mixed and must be replaced when stipulated by the manufacturer - it may look the same after this date, but may no longer be doing its job.
    Aluminium is normally seen as corrosion resistant because an oxide layer forms on the exposed surfaces that acts as a barrier to further corrosion. However, in conditions where this barrier is broken, corrosion can be very rapid as aluminium is actually a very reactive metal. This is why care of the coolant becomes even more important when using an Aluminium radiator.
    Copper/brass cores are quite tolerant to water quality and although there are some chemicals that can cause problems, and corrosion inhibitors must be used, normal tap water is reasonably well tolerated. The same does not apply to aluminium cores.
    A few important points to note regarding coolants:

    1. Use the correct coolant specified for the vehicle. Coolants are selected to suit the vehicle. The requirements for aluminium and copper brass radiators are different and a common coolant may not suit. The radiator is not the only part of the coolant system and some coolants may have been selected to protect other parts of the cooling system.
    2. Use the correct concentration of coolant. Coolants for aluminium radiators are mainly composed of ethylene glycol but also contain chemicals to protect the cooling system. High-ethylene glycol content will actually reduce the heat rejection performance of the cooling system*. This results in the engine running hotter than normal when the thermostat is fully open.
    3. Always use good quality water to blend with the coolant. Distilled water, demineralised water or rain water are the preferred options. Many town water supplies contain high concentrations of chemicals, such as salts, that are very damaging to an aluminium radiator.
    4. Do not mix coolants. Many coolants use different chemical systems and combining them may neutralise the effect of the chemical protection.
    5. Replace the coolant at the specified intervals. During service the ethylene glycol eventually deteriorates and becomes acidic. This acid will attack the internal oxide coating on the aluminium and lead to corrosion.
    6. Flush the coolant system with clean water after the coolant is drained. It is important to remove any scale or deposits from the system and remove old coolant and chemicals that may adversely affect the new coolant. The heater core is part of the cooling system and must also be flushed of coolant.
    7. Check that the system is properly filled and that any air is removed. Air in the coolant will increase the rate of corrosion and air pockets can lead to uneven cooling of the engine. Some vehicles have trapped air pockets and it may be necessary to bleed air from vent positions to allow the air to escape. The vehicle should be run for a while before the cap is replaced to allow the air to escape.
    8. If the coolant is topped up it should be with a properly mixed coolant solution so that the concentration of the system is not changed. Ensure that the coolant type is the same as is already used in the vehicle to ensure it is compatible.
    *Low-ethylene glycol content will not carry the required concentration of additives and can also result in an incorrect Ph level. This leads to damage of the radiator due to corrosion. NOTE: Ethylene glycol is toxic. Please follow specific manufacturer instructions for handling and disposal. It is also important to clean up spills.
    Radiator Service
    DENSO advise the use of authorised radiator repairers or your vehicle dealer. Generally, cooling systems should be serviced yearly.
    Your radiator specialist will flush and replace your coolant, clean off road debris and check for possible problems such as corrosion, blockages, leaks, hose wear and tear, etc. Preventative maintenance assists in preventing breakdown due to over-heating.
    Genuine parts are recommended for optimal efficiency as these parts are designed specifically for the vehicle model. A change of components may affect performance of the cooling system. DENSO copper/brass NWR and NSR radiators may be replaced with equivalent DENSO Aluminium NSR radiators in some instances. In these cases the direct equivalents have been designed to suit the application.
    Radiator Care
    Ensure radiator coolant level is correct. In newer cars this is as easy as looking through the plastic reservoir wall to check fill lines are covered. Coolant can be added via the reservoir (when cold) if required (refer to section on coolants).
    For vehicles without a reservoir, remove the radiator cap and check coolant level while the engine is cold. Also check if coolant looks rusty, or has things floating in it - if it does, the system needs flushing and new coolant. If it has a sludgy oily surface get your mechanic to check for the reason.
    While checking the radiator, ensure that the hoses are not leaking, cracked, bulging or squishy. If they are, they will need to be replaced.
    What to do if your car overheats?
    If your radiator overheats, pull over and raise bonnet to assist cooling. Do not remove radiator cap or add cold liquid. Allow time for the radiator to cool down, liquid should only be added to the radiator when it is cool. Apart from the danger of being burnt by the radiator, removing the cap when hot will cause hot liquid and steam to surge upwards as the pressure in the system is released. Adding cold liquid to a hot radiator can also crack the engine block. If you must add liquid while it is still a little warm have the engine running to mix the cooler liquid as it is added and add slowly.
    Causes of Premature Radiator Failures
    • Corrosion - Internal & External
    • Erosion - Internal & External
    • Stray Current - Electrolysis
    • Mechanical Damage
    Chemical corrosion is often due to incorrect coolant use. Corrosive atmospheres, road grime and stray current in the cooling system are also potential problems. Qualified Auto Electricians and Radiator Repair Specialists use a voltmeter and a specific procedure to test for stray current.
    Mechanical failure includes tanks splitting and separation of fin to tube bonding. It is often caused by excess pressure in the system, possibly from a blown head gasket or even a radiator cap. A faulty swollen radiator cap or incorrect one can prevent pressure release with severe consequences. Alternatively, poor radiator cap sealing can lead to the loss of coolant, loss of system ability to draw coolant back from the overflow reservoir and to boiling of the coolant under severe operating conditions.
     
    Loading...
    SpeedyGee likes this.
  6. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,169
    6,403
    516
  7. Nels Moderator Staff Team

    Great info CJ. Thanks
    (Second thing learnt today) :Smile:
     
    Loading...
  8. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    Such a good wealth of information there. Would you by chance have one of those guides on changing the coolant on the 3rd Generation CR-V? :Smile:
     
    Loading...
  9. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,169
    6,403
    516
    Yeah i will post the coolant change for the I-CTDI CR-V it will be basic thou.
     
    Loading...
  10. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    No worries, if it's enough for me to do it then I'll do a photo DIY as I've no idea if my coolant has ever been changed and not just "topped up" with that last service - mind it was leaking out the overflow hose. If memory serves correct it was green and not blue!
     
    Loading...
  11. Ichiban Founder Staff Team