Fuel Efficiency Hot brakes

Discussion in '1st Generation (2004-2011)' started by RobsyUK, Friday 27th May, 2016.

  1. RobsyUK Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Rob Milton Keynes
    405
    143
    I know I keep posting about brakes so please forgive me but I'm stumped...

    I was getting 22mpg my brakes stank, were exceptionally hot and were replaced with genuine Honda.

    So calipers, pipes, fluid discs and pads all new.

    I now get 25mpg and the rear discs get just as hot as the fronts.

    I compared with a friends FR-V and she's getting 29mpg around Milton Keynes and her rear discs were cold after a 10 mile drive.

    Can someone with a. 1.8 auto go for a 5 mile town drive and tell me if their rear discs are hot to the back of a finger.

    I went back to Honda who said they had it on a machine and there's nothing wrong.

    I'm going to clean the plugs and double check the tyre pressure to squeeze as much MPG as possible.

    If all is normal I can't believe Milton Keynes roundabouts and my driving is using so much fuel.

    How much is an lpg conversion? Maybe I should consider one of 25mpg is expected.
     
    Loading...
  2. DieselPower Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    The rears are never as hot as the fronts. Did the dealer test the braking modules using the HDS? I did my rears recently and the bedding in period did not generate any extra heat.
     
    Last edited: Friday 27th May, 2016
    Loading...
  3. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
    5,369
    3,141
    14
    @RobsyUK - are they only getting hot when you brake or are they still binding? If you are cruising down the road without touching your brakes, they should not be getting hot at all. Im starting to think your handbrake hasnt disengaged correctly. Go for a drive at night on a quiet long road, get up to speed and let the car naturally come to a stop. Then get out and feel your discs. They shouldnt be hot, if they are, something is still binding

    Also, MPG is very largely dependant on driving style and condition of the car as you know
     
    Loading...
  4. DieselPower Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Good point, in a previous post rob mentioned he could move the car with the handbrake on but then it was impossible after a short drive. he's changed the discs and pads since then so good idea to re-test the handbrake.
     
    Loading...
  5. RobsyUK Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Rob Milton Keynes
    405
    143
    @SpeedyGee I've never been able to move the car with the handbrake on.

    Tomorrow ill go for a drive down the a5 and roll to a stop on the hard shoulder to see if they are hot.

    @DieselPower I don't believe they connect to the HDS, but wouldn't that only read stored codes? No warning lights come on. Except the 2 times I've been on gravel and turned while flooring it - minimal wheel spin.
    First time the VSA triangle flashed up and second time the VSA letter came on and stayed on until I turned the engine off. - it's not come back since.

    I'm 99.8% certain the hand brake is fine as I can push the car when in N Quite easily.

    My driving style is probably perfect. And even more cautious since the new pads.

    If the HDS can fault find without engine codes I'll happily ask them to do it
     
    Loading...
  6. DieselPower Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    I don't have any first hand experience of the HDS but I've heard that it is very versatile and can activate ABS pumps and run diagnostics. you would however think any issues would generate a code.

    If I was in your situation I'd get all four wheels off the ground and run the car and try and catch the rear brakes binding and then switch the car off make and make sure the binding has stopped and then turn the VSA off and try again. Use this as your testbed and see under what conditions the binding comes and goes. Looks like no garage has the appetite to diagnose this issue.
     
    Loading...
  7. stuscrv Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    Spain stu lanzarote
    463
    137
    Some things amiss here, I've only got shoes on the back of mine but the massive 128bhp (when new ) is not able to move the car with handbrake on. As we all know the rear brakes ( on mine ) count for less than 20% of total brake force. I could drive hard for miles and the rear drums/wheels would hardly be warm to the touch. Sounds like caliper agro to me.
     
  8. RobsyUK Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Rob Milton Keynes
    405
    143
    Just done a 5mile drive with cold discs to start. Put the car in neutral at 70mph and let the car roll to a holt

    One thing I didn't think to check and have now checked is the front discs.

    The fronts are cold the rears are definitely on constantly.
    No where near as hot but warmer then they were when setting off.

    I'm going to go back to the dealer today and contact Honda uk.
    I didn't pay xxx to still have the same issue
     
    Loading...
  9. DieselPower Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    I just don't get it, you've had the calipers
    replaced which is what most ppl thought the issue was. On top of that discs pads,line,fluids been changed. Not sure what else the dealer can do without an error code related to ABS.
     
    Loading...
  10. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom .
    2,559
    1,247
    1
    I always assume it's the pads sticking on the numerous occasions when my Accord tourer rear brakes are binding. And it almost always is...
     
    Loading...
    Nighthawk likes this.
  11. RobsyUK Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Rob Milton Keynes
    405
    143
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/qrqwmcd4egc8fh0/Video 28-05-2016, 16 21 00.mov?dl=0

    Rear passanger side after 7 miles
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/5rp5iaax1gren18/Video 28-05-2016, 16 21 14.mov?dl=0

    Rear right. Same distance (obviously)

    Garage has said this is normal operation. I'm going to call Honda uk on monday
    - - - Updated - - -
    Is this with genuine Honda pads fitted by Honda?
     
    Loading...
  12. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
    5,369
    3,141
    14
    Pads binding is common if they have not been greased up correctly so the piston retracts but the pads stay put. Is there any smell coming from the discs at all? Do you take it to Johnsons Honda near the Tesco?

    Its certainly not normal operation, and also, I appreciate you were doing it to show us on the video how hot they were getting, but don't throw cold water onto hot brakes - you risk warping the discs as they suddenly cool down.
     
    Loading...
  13. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom .
    2,559
    1,247
    1
    The pads sticking (and so then not retracting, as described by @Nighthawk) even happens with pads I buy from Honda. I can't comment on whether this would happen if Honda fitted them, as I fit them myself, but unless they took the trouble to grind down the edges to remove the paint and casting marks then in my experience they would definitely stick sooner or later. I last fitted new rear pads (bought from Holdcroft) only a couple of months ago and, in my opinion, they were too tight a fit straight from the box, even using the synthetic grease that s supplied with them. I had to remove a small amount from each side of each rear pad so that I was happy with how they fitted. I do not know why this would be necessary, but it really is, at least on my car.

    Every time I service the car I strip down the rear brakes, clean them up and regrease them. It isn't unusual that I have to again grind a little corrosion off the edges of the pads to stop them being too tight.

    I can't be sure, but I'm guessing this could well be your problem?
     
    Last edited: Saturday 28th May, 2016
    Loading...
    Nighthawk likes this.
  14. RobsyUK Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Rob Milton Keynes
    405
    143
    The water wasn't ICE cold but that's a valid point @Nighthawk - I'll never drive through huge puddles for the steam rally effect again after you have opened my eyes.
    Yes it's johnsons near tesco and no they don't smell.
     
    Loading...
  15. DieselPower Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Thanks for sharing this info!
    I I learnt from Erico here:

    That rust underneath the shim is the msin cause of pads sticking and grease should be applied under the shim not on top.

    I recently fitted new pagid rears and the old ones were seized in due to this very reason so I wire brushed and greased the area underneath the pad shims.

    My old seized rears never got that hot, the motion of the car would surely create enough of a gap.
     
    Loading...
  16. naf123 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    England Nathan London
    29
    4
    I was feeling my brakes to see which ones are warm.

    The front brakes feels lukewarm and the rear brakes are cold after a short drive. Does it mean there is a problem?
     
  17. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
    5,369
    3,141
    14
    Nope. Brakes get warm due to friction. Front ones always get warmer than rear ones
     
    Loading...
  18. RobsyUK Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Rob Milton Keynes
    405
    143
    As @Nighthawk Said.
    I opened a post as my rears used to get scorching hot and everything was replaced. Took it to Honda who said rear discs were wrong but I still have hot rear brakes - not as bad but still hot.
    The rears shouldn't get hot anywhere near the fronts.
    They only do around 25% of the breaking
    @naf123
     
    Last edited: Monday 30th May, 2016
    Loading...
  19. naf123 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    England Nathan London
    29
    4
    Thanks! Good to know all this. I was just investigating why I get 20mpg! At least I can rule out brakes!
     
  20. RobsyUK Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Rob Milton Keynes
    405
    143
    @naf123 peopel say a service with the correct oil massively improved MPG (0w 30IIRC)
     
    Loading...
    Nighthawk likes this.