Engine & Gearbox I- CTDI Cam and Oil chain replacement - Gathering Knowledge

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by nauest, Wednesday 20th May, 2015.

  1. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    Hi Everyone,

    Just to let you know I will be attempting a full chain replacement in 2 weeks time. I am making this thread to gather together all of the knowledge and questions about the job into one place. I will be making (If successful) A fully comprehensive guide on the job. To my usual standard.

    Firstly I have a few questions:

    - Most of the people that have done this job don't seem to change any/all of chain sprockets, where could I get replacement sockets and would you recommend changing them.
    - Could I get a discount on the tensioners via Holdcroft Honda as a HK member?
    - Can I get any successful tricks or tips for removing the injectors.

    Look forward to building a knowledge base on this!
     
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  2. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    I did my own chains last summer. Engine was noisy, but is lovely and quiet now. The chains were both stretched, particularly the long timing chain, plus the timing chain tensioner arm had some deep wear grooves.

    Before starting, I got the following parts - Febi chains from eBay, Loctite 5920 instant gasket/engine oil from EuroCarParts, injector gaskets/oil filter/oil pump chain tensioner from Holdcroft Honda. I had been given advice from a Honda technician to only buy these parts upfront (he actually advised me to buy Febi Chains). I have the part numbers, if you need them.

    During the work I discovered that the following parts also needed replacement - timing chain tensioner arm, plus the bolts that hold on the oil pump tensioner, all from HH.

    You will need to assess the engine sprockets, chain guides, tensioner arms and tensioners when you actually get them off. I replaced the oil pump chain tensioner because it is so damn inaccessible (whereas the timing chain tensioner can be easily replaced at any time via an inspection hatch). Unfortunately the tensioner I bought cost around 50% of the job (and the oil one looked perfectly serviceable!).

    Unfortunately you will need an engine hoist, as the rear and right engine mounts need to be removed to allow the sump and chain cover to be removed (front suspension sub-frame needs to be lowered too) . Space is incredibly tight, it is practically impossible to replace the sump and chain cover WITHOUT wiping off the instant gasket.

    My injectors came out easily (I undid the clamp bolts with the engine running, redneck mechanic that I am), but I struggled with the crankshaft pulley bolt for a long time (eventually wedged a breaker bar on the floor and let the starter motor undo it for me, redneck mechanic, etc, etc).

    You don't need special tools, even though the Honda workshop manual tells you that you do!
     
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  3. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    Zebster, excellent bit of insight there. Thanks for all that info.

    What you have said works with what I was planning as well. I plan to buy chains, tensioners with arms but avoid guides and sprockets if possible.

    I have access to an engine crane for the job.
     
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  4. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Tensioners, arms and sprockets are all really, really expensive. Look carefully at the old parts and only replace what you really need to... I'm not sure I should have bothered with the oil pump drive tensioner (but was strongly encouraged to do so by someone far more experienced than me). HH are pretty quick at delivering.

    Like me, you have a pre-facelift and the tensioners on these have a ratchet mechanism... once you have the tensioner in your hand it's fairly easy to let the piston push out and check the ratchet teeth. Facelift engines had a different design of tensioner (which are what you get from Honda as a retro-fit). Sprockets develop a 'hooking' when worn, I had absolutely no sign of this, even at over 155k miles. Guides (and the business end of the tensioner arms) are made of a hard plastic and become grooved by contact with the chain. I was given a lot of advice on checking for wear, there will doubtless be some but I was told that less than around 0.5mm groove depth is acceptable.
     
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  5. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Stoke
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    if you take the sump off first you can then support the engine on axel stand with using a wood block against the oil pump body. in order to remove the sump the front of the subframe needs lowering. you can remove both front main subframe bolts giving space to lower and remove the sump. support the engine and then remove the chain case. on re-build fit the chain case and upper engine mount first then you can remove the stand on the oil pump body and fit the sump.

    no engine hoist req.
     
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  6. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Spot on beef you nailed that
     
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  7. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    These are the required chains (I'm not necessarily vouching for this supplier, btw... but I could look at my receipts and find out who I did buy from, if required):-



    If you were sure that the problem was ONLY the timing chain, then it would be much, much easier (and cheaper) to only change that - the sump wouldn't have to be removed, which would save a significant amount of effort and cost. My oil pump drive chain (and associated parts) was actually just on the wear limit, according to the guidance given by the Honda workshop manual (assessed by measuring the extent to which the tensioner piston has to protrude in order to maintain the baseline chain tension). With the benefit of hindsight, I could have got away with just replaced my timing chain plus the tensioner arm and so - in the unlikely scenario that I ever do this again - I would try to narrow down the exact source of the chain noise, if possible. Some degree of inspection is available via the removable plate on the chain cover (but oddly the Honda ESM doesn't give a protrusion figure relating to wear limit, as with the oil pump chain).
     
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  8. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    Most of the noise in my car is coming from underneath so I would bet that the oil pump chain will need to be replaced too.

    I do have an engine crane, is it easier to do it that way?
     
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  9. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Definitely. Supporting the engine underneath the oil pump housing would obviously severely restrict your freedom of movement while working underneath, plus the underside of the oil pump/balancer shaft housing isn't a very flat surface to safely support the weight of the engine. Additionally, I found it very useful to be able to easily raise/lower the engine very easily and safely using the hoist to continually gain better access when removing/refitting the chain cover bolts (and a few other things).

    If you haven't done so already, it would be convenient for you to undertake the shorter aux belt mod during this larger task. You need a 7PK1784 belt.
     
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  10. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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  11. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    I had missed that thread, thanks for highlighting.

    I have already switched to the shorter aux belt, one less thing to buy at least!
     
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  12. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    What would people recommend as the best way of ordering specific parts from Holdcroft Honda?
     
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  13. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    Call them up ??
     
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  14. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    Makes sense!
     
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  15. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Make sure you get a discount for being a forum member!
     
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  16. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    Can someone confirm these part numbers if possible?

    · Timing
    o 14401-RBD-E01 Chain
    o 14410-RBD-E01 Tensioner
    o 14420-RBD-E01 Arm
    · Oil Pump:
    o 13441-RBD-E01 Chain
    o 13450-RBD-E01 Tensioner
    o 13470-RBD-E01 Arm
     
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  17. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Lings is your best bet for checking. Do you know how to extract the Honda part numbers?

    HH will know the correct part numbers, in fact they usually DON'T want customers to tell them the required part numbers in case you make a mistake... and there's no refund if YOU make a mistake! But they won't tell you the Honda part numbers, in case you then hang up and go elsewhere. I've bought quite a few things from them over the years and have found both Gareth and Lee to be really helpful.
     
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  18. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    Just chatted to Gareth, seems all in order. Right! on to the next steps.
     
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  19. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    I can imagine that that lot will cost you at least 500 quid?

    Don't forget the injector gaskets... I really wouldn't recommend non-Honda ones.
     
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  20. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    Yuh, looking like £550, but if I am going to put that much effort in I feel its worth changing the lot. If I do this I want to get 200k outta this car if I can.
     
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