Engine & Gearbox i-CTDi - The Timing Chain, Again

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by nauest, Friday 13th Feb, 2015.

  1. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    Hi Guys,

    I have been reading a lot about the timing chain issue on the 04/05 Ctdi Accord on here, great info.

    I am starting my own thread as I have some specific questions!
    I have just bought one and unfortunately wasn't aware of this issue before I bought it.

    I paid about £3k and it looks like the repair at a main dealer wouldn't cost much less than that. I will be heading over to HH on recommendation to get their opinion.

    My chain is clearly rattling, I have taken of the Aux belt and it still makes the noise, 90% sure the chain is the problem. Its not that loud at the moment.

    I am really interested to know your opinions and ideas on what options I might have. The way I see it is:

    1. I Pay virtually the same I paid for the car to have the main dealer replace the chains and various associated parts, possibly injectors that are broken in the process. (£2 - 3k)

    2. I buy the parts myself, mix of new and second hand and try and get an indy garage to do the work at a cheaper rate. (£1 - 2k)

    3. I buy the parts and have a stab at doing the job myself, i have some experience with Aux belts, alternators, manifolds but have never taken a head off or done timing. (£500 - 1 k)

    4. I try and shift the car on as spares ripairs, etc.

    5. I maximise the servicing and take it easy and drive the car as long as possible before it finally gives up (What can I hope to get from it with this problem)


    What would you guys recommend, what are my options and do you agree with the above? Also does anyone know where to get a good guide/manual for this kind of job?

    Thanks a lot
    :Smile:
     
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  2. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Have you had a price from HH yet? its defiantly daunting when those sorts of figures are put in front of you. when are you booked in for us to look at it? at least we can give our opinion on how bad the rattle is. its very rare we have problems with injectors and quite often you can get away with not having to replace a guide or two. obviously it is best practice to replace everything but as you know its quite costly. I'd certainly recommend replacing the tensioners and both chains as a minimum and a visual inspection of the guides may show up a guide or two is in a re-useable condition.

    in answer to using used parts ''DON'T!'' and be very careful using a general garage. it is a saving of course but if they are unfamiliar with these cars, can you really be confident of a proper repair?

    don't try and do it yourself unless you are a fully competent mechanic. its not a nice DIY in any respect and if the timing is wrong you're in big trouble.
     
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  3. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    Hi Beefy,

    Cheers for your input. That makes sense, I would definitely like their opinion as soon as possible, the more options the better.

    I haven't booked it with HH yet, I am going to do that right away, I called early today and they said they would call me back but haven't heard from them yet, I will try again tomorrow.

    Just FYI the Engine has only done 41k miles. I dread to think what has been done to it to cause this...It has all the stamps in the book, admittedly not all Honda ones!

    In that case I will look at having the minimum possible replaced at HH (Unfortunately the way it will have to be!) I can afford it but it will be a push...

    I bought it only a week ago and had a budget of 3 k unfortunately not with a 3 k repair budget on top! Its a real shame as I am thoroughly enjoying the car. I am usually pretty good with my research but missed this issue. Have already swapped the Aux belt for the shorter version but unfortunately that wasn't the problem!
    - - - Updated - - -
    What is the best way to get in touch with HH, I seem to have a few different numbers?
     
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  4. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    01782261593 is the best to use I would say. Unfortunately it's a busy reception desk and sometimes the odd call back gets missed. Best arranging over the phone while you have there attention. There will be someone to take your call from 9 till 12 tomorrow.

    Low mileage then!
     
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  5. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    Will give them a call first thing. Thanks!

    Engine has done 41k, car has done 111k. Engine was replaced after a catastrophic turbocharger failure!

    This car does have a bit of a history. I thought having a newer engine would reduce the chance of these kind of problems! I really feel I know much more now than I did a few weeks back. I would have approached this very differently If I had read all I have read now! Still keen for Honda though. Will try hard to make this work.
     
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  6. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    The plot thickens. Hopefully it can be repaired at the minimum of cost. So soon after buying it must be a nightmare. Unfortunately this is all part and parcel of the used car game. We're you told about the engine change when buying it?
     
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  7. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    Yes I know could write a book about this car! Yes I was, its in the service book and I have receipts. If I had realised that servicing quality is more important than engine miles I wouldn't have gone for this car. Not like the Pug engines I am used to.
     
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  8. candobill Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    I have read your problem Nauest and would say to find a decent mechanic (not a fitter) who has a good reputation and depends on his skills to get work. ask his opinion and what he can do for you, there is usually someone local or near who will be able to do the kind of job you are needing done to a good standard. this type of mechanic will not be charging you anywhere near the same as the dealer due to his overheads and that is where they can reduce costs without the reduction of skill and work ethics try trade guides if you can't find one locally. hope this helps :Thumbup:
     
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  9. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    While I'm not going to say you definitely need to go to a dealer, I would only give the job to someone who's dealt with this issue on the I-CDTI engine before, ie. a competent Honda specialist at the least. The huge benefit with say HH, is that they've done this job many times before.

    The premature timing chain wear is exacerbated by excessive soot content in the engine oil, ie. bad oil change intervals have caused it to go fairly early in life, you're certainly not the first. It's one of the big reasons why you'll find so many in the club preach 6,000 mile oil changes on the I-CTDI, infact with those that have been well maintained, some never see the issue at all. @Nels old car was a prime example of this.
     
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  10. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    As an update I have listened to a few videos of various ctdi engines and mine dosen't seem noticably louder. How much moise do the chains in these engines make?

    I have also ordered 20 litres of 0w30 fully sinthetic oil and intend to get this engine flushed through and onto a super short service interval.

    Is there any way to inspect the chains as a Home Mechanic? I have seen some mention of a inspection window?
    - - - Updated - - -
    Still on for an appointment at HH to get their opinion on it!
     
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  11. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    No window to easily check no. Best view is removing the rocker cover but you have got to remove the injectors to do that. It's not really possible to visually inspect. You can remove the inspection plate for the tensioner and measure the length of the tensioner rod. This will give an idea of chain stretch and there is a tolerance to go by.
     
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  12. Nels Moderator Staff Team

    Bought her at 1 year old and traded her in at 11. Never had an issue with the chain. I hope she's gone to a good home...

    My 3rd Accord - CN1
     
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  13. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    Having put some further thought into this and got some opinions. It looks like I may have been overstating the problem. I have never had a Cam Chained car before but I am a super stickler for any noise from my car, the slightest rattle or squeak. (Hence why my Peugeots drove me crazy!) My thoughts now are that its not as bad as I thought, I am going to put her on a religious service routine and monitor the situation. Seems more sensible than shelling out 2/3rds the value of the car at this stage, especially as the engine has only done around 40k. I will keep you posted on how it goes.

    I usually only use this car for long journeys and I am a super laid back driver (You will be lucky to see me do 0-60 in less than a minute :Tongue:) Hopefully this should keep the stress off the engine. At least then I can save up to get the job done proper if it gets worse.
     
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  14. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

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    LOL

    Good plan of action Ned. Keep her well serviced and she should serve you well.
     
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  15. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    Latest: Put the new oil, filter and seals in and it sounds like a different engine. I also noticed that with the old oil the chains got quieter as the engine warmed, perhapse the previous oil wasnt moving well enough when cold?

    The stuff I got out was not good. So going to go for a 500 mile re service and filter. Very pleased with the outcome though, taken a little bit of worry off my mind!
     
    Last edited: Tuesday 17th Feb, 2015
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  16. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    Great to hear Ned ! :Smile:
     
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  17. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    @Beefy Just out of interest, is the warrantee replacement chain (Or the replacement you would offer) a noticeably different design to the original or a straight out replacement?
     
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  18. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Not so sure what you mean really. The parts are no different however under warranty all items are replaced including and injectors that are broken etc FOC. Out of warranty it is your choice on what is replaced and our opinion on what is still serviceable in order to bring costs down. Hence it is at your own cost. Our advise would always be to replace everything and be prepared for that price tag. Once stripped down we can then advise on what condition the guides are in etc.
    - - - Updated - - -
    Just read the post again. As far as I am aware there isn't a change in design, issue was with soot contamination. I recon something has changed mind as the engine whine is slightly different after replacement.
     
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  19. nauest Premium Member Club Supporter

    Netherlands Ned Texel
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    Thanks, that makes sense. So its not a clearly different chain/sprocket type, thats what I wanted to know.

    I will monitor and will be straight in touch with you at HH if I have concerns.

    Cheers
     
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