Engine & Gearbox i-DTEC Engine with a slightly higher than normal combustion noise.

Discussion in '8th Generation (2008-2015) [Acura TSX]' started by Ichiban, Thursday 3rd Nov, 2011.

  1. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Ever since the I-DTEC engine was introduced there were some unfavourable remarks being made by owners and the journalist regarding the diesely knock. Some took this noise in their stride some were suggesting this so called characteristic as a backward step from the refined I-CTDI.

    Honda did take this feedback on and have made continuous improvements in this area ever since it arrival in 2008 , now in 2011 and with the arrival of model revision model 2012 this noise is now lower and at par with the outgoing I-CTDI engine.

    However this thread is for owners who have purchased or looking to purchase a 8th Generation and to educate them please ask relevant questions if these updates have been applied to your car. so what do you look out for ?

    Symptom
    Combustion noise between 1500rpm and 2000rpm whilst on light throttle. The noise is most noticeable when the engine is cold engine and when the air conditioning is switched on.

    Cause
    Initial condition variation of fuel injector injection hole causing a varying pilot injection volume and direction.

    The Fix
    Updated software for more precise control of initial injector quantity variation during pilot injection phase.



    Honda dealers are being sent regular updates via DVD's which are deployed via the HDS tablets and HIM..

    TIP


    For all new second hand owners owners planning to buy a I-DTEC. You can request any franchised Honda dealer to look up MARIS (A Honda internet portal ) to see if your car VIN has had any warranty or any product updates applied.

    if you haven't then you may need to negotiate that as part of your sale, as cars outside warranty period may be charged for these updates. This is even more vital is you are buying a lease car which has never seen a Honda dealer for its routine service.
     
    Last edited: Monday 14th Nov, 2011
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  2. Rakoribs Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Hello CJ,

    This description sounds a lot like the unhealthy 'rattle' engine noise i can hear from my 2009 Accord I-DTEC.
    Its one of the 2 'not right' sounding engine noises i'm trying to trace on my new car to check if its actually a (potentially serious) fault or a characteristic of the I-DTEC engine.

    I would describe the noise i have as being a loose 'rattle' (on top of the normal diesel 'clatter').

    EDIT: Its definitely most noticeable from cold, in low gears (1st & 2nd) and particularly under light load conditions, it doesn't always last very long and is transitional. Its also there under part of acceleration through the rev range (foot down), its pretty hard to describe actually. An unhealthy rattle that comes and goes, under varying load/acceleration conditions, particularly when the engines cold - is about as good as i can get. Need to get a video/recording somehow.

    A trusted mechanic friend pointed it out that it reminds him of a petrol engine 'pinking' noise, or similar to little end bearings going on an old petrol engine.
    I had considered worn tappits or a loose timing chain.

    I'll try with the air con on to see what difference that makes if any (i guess it must be load related).

    The local Honda dealer says its sound normal.
    I tried ignoring it, but it still grates as it just doesn't sound right or healthy.

    The only fly in the ointment (to this ECU software update possibly resolving the worrying noise) is that my car has a recall listed on its history (i checked over the phone with the local Honda dealer) - its supposed to have gone in for the oil warning recall in Feb 2013.

    QUESTION: Surely that would have involved a full engine software update and so this older fix would have been included? (even if it hadn't already been applied)

    The dealer was supposed to check if the car ECU software was definitely up to date recently when the slipping clutch was checked, but they couldn't confirm if they definitely had or not.

    Many thanks.
    Regards, Mark.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Forgot to say - i used the online Honda updates/recall checker and this said my vehicle was up to date, i don't know how bullet proof trust worthy this result is though?
    Cheers, Mark.
     
    Last edited: Friday 31st May, 2013
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  3. Rakoribs Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    It turns out the web tool is not trustworthy, it said my car was up to date, but the dealer found that it wasn't and updated it.
    The 'rattle' (petrol engine pinking) type noise (particularly noticeable from cold) appears to be a characteristic of the I-DTEC engine as 2 dealerships and an independent have said its fine.
    It does appear to have got a little quieter since updating the ECU at the dealership, so it may actually be related to this ECU update.
    Cheers, Mark.
     
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  4. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    That is right the Honda owners portal on HUK website is more geared for safety recalls rather than product updates.

    The only way to cross verify is at the dealership using your VIN number on MaRIS or an check by plugging a MVCI\HDS into the OBD port ,that website should not be used as the be all end all when it comes to Honda vehicle check.
     
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  5. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Stoke
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    theres been further updates since the oil level update. engine noise is subjective, to each and every owner its different.
     
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  6. Rakoribs Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Thanks for the info guys,
    I'm trying to ignore the 'rattle' now.
    Hopefully, it'll start to blend into the background noise:Wink:
    Cheers, Mark.
     
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  7. srgibbs Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    If a car is within the 3 year manufactures warranty, are software updates automatically carried out at the annual service or at the owners request?
     
  8. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

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    In theory that should happen as a customary check every service as per the franchises duty of care to its customers. Honda also made this promise as one of it milestone in the new Honda way servicing incentive. But unfortunately dealership are under pressure to turn around car rapidly and this check is not done. If you build a good rapport with the dealership you will find this being done..If you are a one off then you have to ask. Hope that helps
     
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  9. srgibbs Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Thanks CJ, I'll contact my dealership and check I'm up to date.
     
  10. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    No worries just to add a bit more when you call your dealership even for a light bulb they will ask you for your reg number so they can check If there is any recalls or product updates. however the small incremental ECU software update will not be visible to them ..that is only when your car is attached to the HIM/ Tablet or MVCI it becomes apparent.

    don't be under the illusion if there is no recall or product updates showing on the system that means your car is not missing a few roll ups.

    A little inside tip for you my 2.0 tourer CM1 had a software update on its 8th service ..how many 2.0 CL7 and CM1 on the roads who haven't been back to the dealers after their 3rd service ...??. Honda updates are constant even If the car production has stopped, if a bug is found it's fixed by Honda .
     
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  11. srgibbs Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    CJ, Can the dealership print a list of all updates that have been applied to my car? If so, can this be checked against a Honda reference document to ensure all possible updates have been applied?
     
  12. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Not really as it not something Honda feel they need to publicize.All the dealers get the updated dvd and notification via respective TSB which states the fix to a problem, and which revision dvd they need to use to fix the issue. There used to be a program called CM update on the older HIM and tablets now the MVCI stores it and does away with CMU as it stores the files on the unit rather than the tablet or laptop.

    Ask the dealer to show you when they plug in the kit it will prompt the operator if its out of date.
     
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  13. i-DSI Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Hi Srgibbs,
    If these updates have been performed the first 3 years, than every Honda dealer can check this out for you. All warranty actions are registered and every dealer can check for every VIN what has been done under warranty.
    But as Ichiban says, the only thing that matters: does your car have the latest update. Indeed, simply connect it to the MVCI and it will indicate if any update to a system is needed. So a printed list does not make that much sense. Also, a dealer can not install an older update or go back. At least: if he has the latest version on the MVCI.
     
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  14. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Not completely accurate as for software updates coming up on MaRIS ,the warranty information is only logged to a VIN when Honda pays the dealer for that work. For example the oil increase recall was chargeable by the dealer to Honda so that is recorded but any adhoc rolls up are not logged as it not payable by Honda that comes under the dealers duty of care.

    That is one of the main reason dealers want to charge customers for HDS\MVCI time as they cannot claim any diagnostics fees back from Honda at all.
     
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  15. srgibbs Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Updates seem to be a bit of a mine field! I'll wait for my annual service and then ask them to connect to the MCVI and check I'm up to date.