Engine & Gearbox Intermittent Changing Gear Problem 2.2 i-CDTi

Discussion in '1st Generation (2004-2011)' started by Bones126, Friday 17th Jul, 2015.

  1. Bones126 Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Dave Birmingham
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    I have recently started having a problem with changing gear, but it doesn't happen all the time. It's Usually fine every morning while I drive to work, but on the drive home in heavier traffic every now an then I have the problem either getting it into gear or out of gear. It is as thought the clutch is not engaging although the pedal is fully depressed. Some times the clutch pedal travels it's full distance up before engaging the gear, sometimes in engages straight from fully depressed off the floor. It is here where I have the problem, I'ts like the clutch has not engaged allowing the gear selectors to change gear freely.
    Also, when the pedal is slightly depressed, there is increased noise from the clutch, possible thrust bearing noise??

    There is no clutch slip at all and I have bleed the clutch cylinder on the front of the gearbox. I have also used Molycote spray on the moving parts I can get to.
    Car has hit the 75K mark so next step is to change the Transmission oil.

    Has anyone had this problem before?
    Any ideas anyone please? @Beefy ?

    Thanks
    Dave
     
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  2. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    This sounds like the clutch failing to properly dis-engage. Bleeding it was the obvious thing to try first, but disappointing that this hasn't fixed the problem... did it improve things at all? Did the fluid bled out look 'healthy', or was it a horrible black jelly-like stuff? Did you bleed it in such a way that you are confident that all air and manky old fluid has been flushed out? Your comment about the engagement point varying does also suggest air still in the system (expanding when hot and exacerbating the problem)

    I don't think that's unusual and it is probably from the thrust bearing (either by being brought into contact or by becoming loaded). Unless you can really 'feel' this noise coming up through the clutch pedal, then I wouldn't worry too much.

    With the engine off, do all gears select properly and without baulking?
     
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  3. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    :whathesaid:
     
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  4. Bones126 Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Dave Birmingham
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    Thanks for the reply @Zebster

    The fluid eventually came out clear but it was a long process, it took 1 liter of fluid to do.
    It has improved the situation. The clutch feels lighter to use but the problem still persisted while in stop/start traffic, I will let it settle and try bleeding again.
    My first thoughts were that there is air in the system which increases the problem when the engine is hot and heating the fluid, will try again but was sure there was no air left in the system.

    I haven't tried changing gear with the engine off, will try lunch time and report back.

    Thanks again for your help :Niceone:
     
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  5. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    Whilst you were bleeding did the clutch fluid level get low in the reservoir ?
     
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  6. Bones126 Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Dave Birmingham
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    It did, yes. But I believe I got all the air out?
     
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  7. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    I think what happens when the reservoir runs low is air gets trapped in the CMC so it's trickier to get out. Bleeding at the slave cylinder bleed nipple doesn't get that air out.

    It's happened to me in the past and what I ended up having to do is remove the two bolts on the slave cylinder and manually push the plunger in by hand and then pull it out and repeat a couple of time. I then saw the air bubbles pop up out of the reservoir.

    Clutch felt spot on after that.
     
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  8. Bones126 Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Dave Birmingham
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    Nice one @SpeedyGee , when I bleed the system again I do that first.

    To clarify, this is the slave cylinder is the one at the front of the engine where I have been bleeding from?

    Is there a bleed nipple for master cylinder? As I could only see a bleed nipple on the cylinder on top of the gear box at the front.
     
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  9. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    There's no bleed nipple on the master cylinder, only on the slave cylinder.

    That's right, I removed the slave cylinder and pushed in to the plunger a couple of times.
     
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  10. Bones126 Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Dave Birmingham
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    Thanks :Niceone:

    I'll take it off and do the job properly then :Smile: I read that this piston needs greasing too, so will take opportunity to do that properly too.

    I'll keep you posted :Thumbup:
     
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  11. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    I'd personally only use red rubber grease for that, but I suppose that silicone grease might be OK?
     
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  12. Bones126 Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Dave Birmingham
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    Silicone Grease, are you referring to the Molycote G-Rapid?
     
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  13. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Not really, I was just giving generic advice about a family of grease that shouldn't harm the seals (but may not give such good results as RRG). But if that's what you happen to have available, then it'll be better than dry re-assembly.
     
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  14. Bones126 Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Dave Birmingham
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    Ok Thanks, I sure my dad has to RRG so will get that on the way home.

    I have been a checked the gear change with the engine off, all seems to be ok. Smooth gear change from 1-6 with the clutch pedal depressed and the same with releasing the clutch in-between each change.
     
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  15. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    That does at least rule out any internal selector and/or external linkage problems.

    I'm reasonably confident that your issue is one of air in the hydraulic system, but don't know whether it's matter of bleeding (using the 'special measures' suggested by Speedy) or one of the cylinders being faulty. Obviously you'll have a better idea after re-bleeding.
     
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  16. Bones126 Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Dave Birmingham
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    Thanks @Zebster , sounds like better news to me.

    I have bought an ezzibleed kit with the universal cap now for doing it again, so should rule out getting any air into the system. I'll do as @SpeedyGee suggests and pump the piton fully a few time as well. That should hopefully assure it is completely fresh fluid and no air left in the system.

    Any other tips and advise welcome :Thumbup:

    Thank you for your help with this though @Zebster and @SpeedyGee , much appreciated.
     
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  17. DieselPower Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    I had this problem and it took me about 10+ months to finally fix.

    I replaced the slave and master cylinders and the problem remained...I solidly bled the slave for about 6 months trying all bleeding techniches without success. The slave/master is not that difficult to bleed the usual 2 man method works fine...that is not your prob.


    Your release bearing is chafing on the input shaft due to not enough lube, the increased resistance is causing your clutch fluid to boil giving an erratic biting point. The issue only manifests itself when the bell housing gets hot or greater use of the clutch.

    I got a clear tube and fed it into the bell housing down the clutch fork (and 1 or 2 inches I front) and the squeezed some teflon mountain bike chain lube down the clear tube. I then let the lube rest overnight without starting the car. I did pump the clutch pedal while car was off to distribute the lube.

    They next day it was like I had a new clutch...it was so light with a consistent pedal feel and biting point.

    It goes without saying, if you squirt that lube on the friction surface you'll ruin a good clutch. This is hard to do though as you follow the path of the release fork as a guide.
     
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  18. DieselPower Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Just to add I bled the clutch on an incline/decline, I used a vacuum pump , I used a syringe to push fluid up from the slave, none of it was really necessary. The only thing above the standard 2 man method that you need to do is after bleeding, unbolt the slave (keep the lines attached) tilt the slave so that the bleed nipple is the highest it can be. open the bleed nipple and with your hand slowly compress the slave piston. Once compressed hold it in the position and tighten the nipple...job done.
     
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  19. Bones126 Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    England Dave Birmingham
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    Hi @DieselPower

    Thanks for the reply, that sounds the same problem.
    To confirm was it the the clutch fork at the front where the slave cylinder attaches where you feed the tube in? The one in the pic?
    Does the rubber around it come off and go back on ok or did you leave it on and which side of the fork did you spray?
    Sorry for all the questions.
    Cheers
    Dave image.
     
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  20. DieselPower Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Yes that's the fork in your pic..I fed the tube to the left of the fork. You can feel when you hit where it connects to the bearing, you then have to get in front of the bearing onto the input shaft. The rubber cover pulls off and pops back in place.

    Here's the lube I used http://www.halfords.com/cycling/tools-maintenance/cleaning-lube/muc-off-dry-lube-bike-lubricant

    It has a pointy snout and fit nicely into a tube.

    I looked at some I-CTDI bell housing pics and this helped to navigate the tube to the right spot.
    - - - Updated - - -
    Was just thinking this is one of the more unconventional fixes out there! I can almost hear the old timers tutt tutting :wheelchair:
     
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