Engine & Gearbox K20A2 Head any good?

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by JamesS, Tuesday 17th Feb, 2015.

  1. JamesS Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    James Leeds
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    Right, a mate of mine has just picked up a EP3 Type-R with a broken bottom end. Now I have read somewhere, can't remember where about some EP3 guys using a K24 bottom end with a K20A2 top end. Is this a known conversion or is it specifically for forced induction or a specific build? Can anyone shed any light on this?
     
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  2. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    It is mate, you end up with what's called a K24 Frankenstein engine. I'll be doing one very soon for someone. I've got all the bits ready to go in my garage, just need to find some time to get on with it. I'll have another K24 frank build to do for myself later in year but it won't be a straight frank build, I've got other plans too :Icecream:

    Off the top of my head you need K24 bottom end, K20 sump, K20 oil chain, K20 oil baffle, K20 sump (optional), K20A2 head (or even better K20Z3 head from an FN2), also best to go for new K24 chain and tensioner.
    K20A2 cams aren't the best match for the Accord they weren't designed for torque, which is what the big old Accord needs to shift it well. So replacement of cams is advised.

    On top of all that you want a mappable ECU, commonly attained by getting a 06-08 TSX ECU and then getting FlashPro to program it.
    Once all that's done you need to pay some to map it for you, all in all about a £2000 project in itself.
     
    Last edited: Wednesday 18th Feb, 2015
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  3. JamesS Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    James Leeds
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    Hmm.... and what are the gains like from this sort of project?? :Smile:

    Quite like the sound of it, cause I can get most those bits off his engine, and buy the rest as and when I have the cash.
     
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  4. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    About 250BHP, 210 lb/ft torque I believe. It becomes one manic beast :beaten:

    Of course you need a good I/H/E combo to go with too.
     
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  5. JamesS Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    James Leeds
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    Not a bad bang for your buck to be fair. 2k for 60 BHP. Has anyone done a light turbo conversion for the K24 or Supercharger?
     
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  6. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    There's a couple of supercharged and turbo'd Euro R's on here (K20A engined) but I don't think we have anyone gone down the forced induction route on a K24 yet.

    @DeviateDefiant is thinking of going this route sometime in the distant future.
     
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  7. JamesS Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    James Leeds
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    Hmm.... I don't think a turbo would work that well with the exhaust being out the back of the motor, think it'd be a hassle. Might have to look at a supercharger option. :Smile: Don't really want to rebuild the engine, as this is my daily. Need a bolt on option!
     
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  8. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    It;s been done on the Accord Euro's so K24 engined Accord would be the same.
    - - - Updated - - -
    I'd say quick bang for your bucks, get a littlebo map, do intake and exhaust system and then swap out your gear ratios for EP3 gears.

    Watch it shift !
     
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  9. JamesS Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    James Leeds
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    Lol! Had this discussion with Defiant Devient! I prefer the long gears of the CL9. I have lived with a short ratio gearbox and it sucks! Very tempted to Littlebo kit, just not sure how far I want to take the car, and don't want to buy anything I will replace if I go big! :Smile:
     
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  10. Superman001 Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom James Paisley
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    Thats using almost stock parts, with uprated breathing mods like induction, the RBC or RRC inlet manifold and a decent 2.5 or even 3.0inch custom exhaust system people have got 300bhp and about 210 lb/ft :Smile:
     
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  11. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    K20Z4, the Z3 is on the USA Civic SI (incidentally also better flowing than the K20A2) :Smile:

    You'll need to sort out I/H/E before getting proper gains like that, the stock exhaust manifold for example is a huge restriction point.

    Plenty have, but there's still no proper off-the-shelf turbo kit available really, though a few places in the USA have done a couple now and can supply parts on request. As for Supercharger, the off-the-shelf route is CT-Engineering kit, a few grand imported but 50hp and around 30lb/ft at "out of the box" pressure.

    You'll get about 270-275hp max with well chosen I/H/E on a basic frank build, you need to start getting into aggressive cams and higher compression to hit 300hp, and of course that involves beefing up the valve train and all sorts to do it reliably. You can easily hit those torque figures mind. The RBC manifold is a very bad move for the CL9, it loses harshly down low, gains a smidgen up top, it might make better peak dyno figures, but you've dropped acceleration overall.

    If you are solely interested in making bang for buck power, turbo is the way to go - 300+HP is available for less than the properly built frank route. The K24A3 10.5:1 compression suits better than K20A 11:1 for turbo application, and that's been done 1,000 times, you can safely go pretty high on stock engine internals.
     
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  12. JamesS Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    James Leeds
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    Well looks like I can get all parts needed off the engine that I need for cheap, so think this is the way my build is going. Is it worth trying to source a K24 bottom end and building the engine up outside the car?

    Or what sort of cash am I looking at for a garage to put the bits onto my engine, obviously when I have sourced the other bits I need?
     
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  13. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    This is exactly what @SpeedyGee has done, he has my '03 Accord's engine to build up. If you can afford the initial outlay, you can sell your current engine at the end once it's all installed.

    Eek, this is a really hard question to answer, it depends whether you're just doing head work, building up the bottom end or whatever else. I would suggest speaking to RaceDynoTuning, EuroSpec or Hond-R - there's few garages in the country I would endorse to undertake the work, they should be able to give you some ball park figures.
     
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  14. JamesS Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    James Leeds
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    Cool thanks, just trying to work out which would be best. If I do the work myself it might end up just as expensive as I would need to buy another engine/bottom end. Might be easier to collect all the parts I need then visit one of the above garages. :Smile:
     
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  15. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    I'd budget about £2-3k on the parts side to get I/H/E done, K20 head, cams, VTC and tuning sorted :Smile:
     
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  16. JamesS Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    James Leeds
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    Well I can get the K20 sump, K20 oil chain, K20 oil baffle for next to nothing. So going to get them. Will then try and build up enough parts to do the conversion. Another possibility would be to get the whole engine together and then when built buy a JDM CL8 4x4. But going to concentrate on getting engine built first before I decide which car its going in! :Smile:

    Where is the best place to get a TSX ECU then? I checked ebay and couldn't see anything, even on international. And how difficult is it to code your keys to the new ECU?
     
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  17. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    Many have considered this in the past, though it's a completely different rear end to the chassis (obviously), it's a big gamble as to whether you can bolt up the transmission/prop-shaft set-up easily.
     
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  18. JamesS Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    James Leeds
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    Yeah true, thats a thought for the future, will concentrate on the engine for now. :Smile:
     
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