Accord/7th Gen New Owner of 2.4 Tourer, LPG

Discussion in 'Project & Modification Logs' started by diskow, Tuesday 26th Mar, 2013.

  1. diskow Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Dear Forum members. I am proud member of silver Tourer 2003, Executive with 240.000km on the clock.

    My first post was here asking if anyone could give me an opinion on two Diesel Tourers when i was buying but than after seeing 9 Accords (6X Diesel, 2X 2.0 and 1X 2.4) I have decided to take the last one. It was the least expensive, taken with care with history and most important the engine run the smoothest and much better than all others.

    Since i am the owner now for 1 month i have done some maintenance by myself, changing oil and all the filters. I have also cleaned very rusty rear pistons at the rear brakes.
    OEM service mechanic has changed oil in gearbox and changed brake oil completely. They have also changed upper front right arm and both lower ball joints on lower arms. Not to mention this is the last time spending too much money on OEM Honda mechanic...

    One thing to mention is that I have installed LPG from highest rank called Prins. I get 12.4 L LPG / 100 km combined and I tested my car before conversion and it was 9.6 L Fuel / 100 km. So that means now i have 10Eur/100 km which i think is very good.
    Prins has each injectors and each waxing / cooling per valve. I think this was the most important for me.
    I am absolutely aware i have to adjust valve clearance more often now, I was told every 20.000km.

    Now here comes the part I am concerned> Local mechanic told me today that his experiences so far with LPG gas conversions on Japanese cars are not so positive. He guaranteed me I will have to change all the valves around 150.000 km on LPG. He have seen many used Hondas on LPG without any compression measured on cylinders which valves were worn out completely because of LPG explosion. His statement was that Hondas have very thin valves which can be worn out quickly.
    Are here on forum any LPG converted Honda members with more than 150.000 km on the clock while on LPG?
    On the other hand I have spotted less power on LPG when pulling from lower revs.

    I know time will show but what do you guys think have i made mistake?

    I have spotted much surface corrosion from below the car when car was lifted. Is this normal? How can I remove this?
    Last edited: Tuesday 26th Mar, 2013
  2. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    Diskow, the key to a good LPG system is not just a top named brand it's also a good installation done by someone who understands LPG.

    No engine is going to last if the LPG system is not setup correctly, if you leave the LPG running lean and burn a hole in the piston or bust the crown, don't blame the installation blame the installer.

    Even your Prins system doesn't seem to be setup correctly !! Why have you spotted less power on LPG at lower revs ?? You shouldn't be able to tell which fuel your running on, the difference should not be noticeable. Get that looked at, sounds like it needs to be remapped (LPG remap).

    I've converted many Hondas myself, none of them have had any problems at all. They are all still running superbly.

    My own car has covered over 130,000km on LPG (190000km overall) it runs as sweet as a nut and still has all its power available. Valves are clean with no signs of wear at all ! I've only done the valve clearances once in that time and they were pretty ok, only minor adjustment needed.

    Mechanics don't make good engineers, just because they can bolt a few pipes together and drill a few holes doesn't mean they know how to do a good installation.

    So the problem is not so much that Honda or Japanese engines it's more the spanner monkeys that do the conversions.
    Last edited: Wednesday 27th Mar, 2013
    Chan and vanderlei like this.
  3. diskow Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    how much L/100km of LPG do you have?
    2.4 engine?
  4. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    Yes 2.4.

    I think about it''ll be under 10L/100km.

    You need to verify your figures. You shouldn't bet getting more economy from LPG than you did from petrol. You should actually get less !
    It's just that LPG is cheaper hence it costs you less.

    Check our figures. If you think they are correct 9.2L/100km on petrol and 12L/100km on LPG, then I would think your running lean !

    Do you not a check engine light on ?
    Last edited: Thursday 28th Mar, 2013
  5. diskow Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    I get 2L more on LPG than you.
    Tomorrow I will do valve clearance check and set my valves.
    Maybe i will ring Prins installer soon.

    You get 10L combined (city+highway) ?
  6. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    Yes combined but I haven't done the maths, that's what I think I get.
  7. diskow Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    I don't get engine light on ? Explosion or mixture seems to be fine than right because Honda should sense 18% off correct mixture already?

    Today I did complete valve check and set them.
    Before the check Mechanic said that engine runs very quiet.
    And than working on valves he had to set them out little of a bit because he said they were already in too much.

    I rang Prins today and we will do another check (setting) next week he said.

    It would be very nice to know if you could pass correct measurements for LPG L/100km.
    Now we have the same car, same model, same everything except steering wheel side.
    We could share all data between completely and compare. Lets start with LPG :Smile:
  8. diskow Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    PROBLEM : engine Light is on, but stays on also on Petrol and engine runs kind of wierd when idling - not constant!

    Ok on Wednesday official Prins mechanic had imported new settings to my LPG comp. We changed settings while driving on motorway and tested very properly. Reason of new settings impoting was my fuel efficiency that we talked about here before that we tried to fix.

    Today my engine light went on after slow take off (driving start) before that engine ran on minimum on idle for 5min while i was waiting my wife outside.

    After engine light went on i immediatley turned LPG Off and started on Petrol. Everything happened while driving at very low speed and low revs. Max 1500rpm. The problem now still exist with wierd engine run at idle now also on Petrol.
    What is this?

    Is this some sort of safe mode now with eng. light on and should i reset engine comp now at Honda service to run normally again OR DO I HAVE A SERIOUS Engine failure and even if engine light is one it should work normally on Petrol.
    Please any suggestion welcomed.

    ps. I forgot to mention. 10 seconds before engine light went on VSA ABS light was on for a period of 10 seconds before i restarted my engine. Than went off and after 10 meters of driving engine light went on.
    Last edited: Saturday 6th Apr, 2013
  9. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    Diskow, are you sure your mechanic is fully an official Prins agent ?

    In the UK you can check approved Prins agents on the Prins website. Wonder if you can do that where you are too ?

    Anyways, you've got some odd symptoms there, I'm having trouble trying tie them down to one root cause.

    Does the engine sound like it's running on the cylinders ? Could be a duff solder joint where the mechanics has cut the petrol injector wires and re-soldered. Or perhaps it's a vacuum pipe that's come loose. Not sure hard to tell from here.

    Best to go back to installer and have him check things out.
  10. diskow Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Hey Speedy -
    I wrote my previous reply on telephone. It was full of mistakes. Now I have edited and you can read again it will be more clear.

    But, anyway answer to you:
    - My Mechanic is an official Prins agent.
    - I did now 5 tanks (2000 km) on LPG without a problem.
    - On wednesday we tried to import new setting through software, while we drove on motorway and than in idle possition. Reason for importing was that we tried to fix 13L LPG/100 km. We found and imported new "perfect" settings while on the other hand were reading numbers from Honda computer. I think that was measurements from Lambda sonda (+, -) that we tried to set around 0.
    - After that I did 180km without a problem

    After Engine Light went on yest:
    - engine runs kind of on 3 cylinders when idling
    - i didnt want to rev it, i just stoped but its obvious something is wrong.

    Do you know if engine light is on that maybe engine gets into "safe mode" and won't run properly anymore before reseted ?
    Because i switched immediately on Petrol.
    One good observation is also that VSA light was on 10sec just before engine light. But i reseted in between with another start.

    In the morning i turned on the car to confirm the light is still.
    It runs wierd when warmed and this time not like on 3 cylinders but:
    - a bit more loudly
    - not smooth
    - like the valve clearances would be totally off.
    Last edited: Saturday 6th Apr, 2013
  11. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    Like I said buddy, hard to tell from here. Best get your Prins agent to check it over.
  12. diskow Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    OK -
    I first went to official Honda Service:
    - the indication for fault with MIL on was that my engine runs LEAN. They have cleared (reseted) the fault
    - I have asked them to update my ECU but they refused it is not possible only on Diesel models. When i almost argue with them they checked and found out that its possible to update my ECU. I had to pay 60Eur for software update. They didnt want to hear what i read here
    If any one has any proof I could show to them it would be nice to get this 60 Eur back if Honda covers the costs for mistake.

    OK. After MIL was cleared I went to Prins.
    He found out that when my car runs on PETROL, O2 sensor in idle shows this:
    There is not much difference when driving.

    Prins Mechanic has uploaded new settings for running on LPG, speccialy for idle position when MIL acctualy happened.
    He tried to make sum from Slow Fuel and Fast Fuel around 0. Same for idle as driving position.

    If any one of you have any suggestions and thoughs let me know.

    Last edited by a moderator: Sunday 23rd Feb, 2014
  13. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    You first need to get the car running correctly on petrol.

    If your running lean on petrol it could mean that the installer has caused a vacuum leak somewhere. All the piping and connections need to be checked.

    No point trying to create new LPG maps when there is a problem running on petrol.
  14. diskow Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Would you guide me through this process? I think i have to do this alone.
    If you tell me what piping & connections to check exactly i could do this very detailed.
  15. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    You shouldn't be messing with it, how much do you know about LPG systems ? I'm guessing not a lot.

    You have had a LPG installation done by a Prins approved installer, if the installer is not helping you then you need to speak direct with Prins.

    They will ensure that your problems get resolved.

    You have paid good money to have the best available LPG system installed but the installation is not upto scratch, it has issues caused by poor installation. The Honda engines are easy to convert there shouldn't any running issues at all.

    Don't mess it with it yourself, get it sorted via the right means.
  16. diskow Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    I can not proove that there is a mistake with Instalation....
    OK, i have another question:
    Today i have done some 10 km in the city with lots of stops and starts.
    My fan spins for 10 seconds every 30 seconds. Weather outside is not hot - 15 Degree Celsius.
    Temp. Indicator shows normal bellow half.

    Is this normal?
  17. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    Is the air-conditioning on whilst this is happening ? if it is then that normal.
  18. diskow Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Yes Air Condition was on because it was rainy.
    I will check next time without air condition on.
  19. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    it will be fine with air-con on ..
  20. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    What's the latest on this ? Is your car running correctly now Diskow ?