General No justice here then

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by vincemince, Wednesday 3rd Feb, 2016.

  1. vincemince Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

  2. exec Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom London
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    I can see where the CPS comes from as how do you know who is driving this hired vehicle, perhaps tougher legislation is needed such as making the signee of the hire vehicle be prosecuted for it if they can't prove someone else was driving it, otherwise this could open up a can of worm. Whats to stop someone hiring a vehicle and then running someone over they have a dispute with and then claiming they weren't driving it.
     
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  3. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    This is what I was saying in that post about car parks and taking pictures of cars nect to you. Having a picture in this country doesnt prove an offence - running someone over doesnt prove an offence but video/cctv could act as evidence towards proving it depending on the circumstances.

    The law is designed to try to be fair to both sides, sometimes it fails, sometimes it doesnt, but no law in any country is perfect. As frustrating as the outcome of this may be, imagine that that car is on cloned plates, he has taken your personal registration, put it on an identical car and used it to run someone over. If there was no leeway such as the necessity to prove an offence, rather than using assumptions about who was driving, you could be looking at being held liable for an offence for which you had absolutely no control over purely because a car with the same reg as yours did something illegal. The system protects those on both sides of the field
     
    Last edited: Wednesday 3rd Feb, 2016
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  4. legend-ary Moderator Staff Team

    United Kingdom Legend The Big Smoke
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    ouch! that is horrible..
    but when drivers are becoming incompetent day by day maybe letting a bit of tech in is actually welcomed. I know its no replacement for proper driver training but atleast cars will take steps to stop a**es like these from plowing into people.

    'According to the IIHS research, equipping vehicles with both warning and autobraking systems reduced the rate of rear-end crashes by 39 percent and rear end crashes with injuries by 42 percent. That's an overall reduction in crashes by 12 percent and a reduction in injury crashes by 15 percent.'
    Rear-end crashes go way down when cars can brake themselves | The Verge

    irony that the article photo is of a Volvo too
     
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  5. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Volvos are really good on safety - I don't like their seats, but the rest of the cars are really good.

    Although, some systems don't always work - this was showing off the system in front of the media as a world first auto braking car

     
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  6. legend-ary Moderator Staff Team

    United Kingdom Legend The Big Smoke
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    haha yeah that was such a fail.. though that didn't stop people from showing off to their colleagues
     
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  7. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom nobody zoned
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    cyclist's full youtube here




    The issue is two-fold

    1. the penalty for not disclosing the driver is pathetic ...in this case a 52-year-old man, from Nottingham, received six penalty points and a £150 fine for failing to provide driver details

    2. in all probability the police and CPS could not justify spending more resources on this case. If the cyclist had died, I would expect that the police woud have been straight onto the cyclist's video, then seized the rental vehicle ASAP, and examined all the available CCTV camera footage back to when the car's journey began
     
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  8. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    The law is a jackass ,I will update my milkfloat saga soon the police are as incompetents and f**kwits in my eye and law be as blind as a bat we have no hope. The rossers are moaning we have budget cuts the truth is they have all the morons and village idiots employed in the west Yorkshire wing,

    You guessed it's been three months and they have done F all about my case I mean F all as that's what they have told me.
     
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  9. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    This is madness. The police could surely question the hirer to determine who was driving that car?
     
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  10. vincemince Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

  11. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    It is only the person(s) in the car who would be able to say who was driving at the time.
    That is why "a 52-year-old man, from Nottingham, received six penalty points and a £150 fine for failing to provide driver details".
    It's the same with speeding offences.
    Clearly the penalty for "failing to provide driver details" is too low.
    If the cyclist had died it would be an investigation into "death by careless driving" (or dangerous driving), which would have diverted more police resources to the case (all CCTV footage in Nottingham)
     
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  12. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    So attempted murder is OK?
     
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  13. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Although the criminal law system in this country can be very Machiavellian (indeed, the entire "system" is), I don't think that Machiavelli himself would go as far as to state something like that ... a comedian in a comedy duo might.

    So Ollie, before you get yourself into another fine mess....

    If you watch the youtube video it seems to me that the driver did not actually have any intent, and more likely he/she was drunk (why else did he/she not stop). The car was a hire car (or possibly a courtesy car). We do not know how long it was (in distance and time) from when the car's journey began to this incident. We do not know how long the car had been in the "possession" of the person(s) concerned.

    The police make an investigation and write a report, and the CPS take the decision on what to do. That system is both very safe and very flawed, which makes it open for exploitation by the police, the CPS, and defendant(s). Clearly in this case, the police did not devote their best "exploitative" resources, but as to "attempted murder", even the most Machiavellian officer plus CPS would not even try to say that based on the video evidence, because proving "attempted murder" requires enough detail to be able to state and prove "intent".
     
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