Suspension, Steering and Brakes Occasional loud groan from the rear wheels / suspension

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by stratos, Thursday 28th Jul, 2016.

  1. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
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    2007 Accord I-CTDI EX Tourer

    Won't get chance to look at this for a week or so but thought I would ask in the meantime.

    I have a loud groan emanating from the rear of the car. It first appeared when it was raining and would go whenever a applied the brakes but now comes and goes whenever.
    It sounds like it could be a binding brake but the noise does not speed up with the speed of the car so that may count out the wheels bearings too.

    Just after some idea's of what to check if someone else has had the same issues.
     
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  2. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    It depends what you meam by a "groan" (that suggests someone is sleeping in the back)

    If it's a rumbling noise that lasts for a few minutes and then goes, and if it depends on road surface and slight roll on long corners, then it's rear bearings.

    The bearing noise is worse on 7th Generation Tourers, the sound gets "amplified" by the open boot area in the Tourer. It is made worse by some type of tyres, and it continues to get louder and more persistent over time (months) but is not usually an MOT fail.
     
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  3. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
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    Definitely a groan more than a rumble. Yes, the noise is more amplified due to being a tourer.
    If it were wheel bearings, I would expect the groan to get faster as the car got faster but it does not.
    Just thinking!!
    Will get it up in the air next week.
     
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  4. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    What condition are the rear tyres in ? Good tread ? Even wear ?
     
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  5. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    The rumble (groan ?) doesn't change with road speed, if anything it seems to "resonate" most at 40 to 70 mph.

    If it's not on both sides, you can tell which side e.g. if it's on the left side, it gets louder round a shallow 50 mph righ-hand bend, and disappears round a shallow 50 mph left-hand bend.

    btw if it is a wheel bearing, other than a very quiet "cicking" as you rotate the wheel, you probably won't be able to tell that there's anything out of the ordinary

    note also that Tourer rear bearings are different from saloon
     
    Last edited: Thursday 28th Jul, 2016
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  6. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
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    Tyres are not bad but will need replacing next year.
    Due to the recent rainfall, the groaning noise still gets louder and more pronounce when wet.
    The noise appears to be coming from the nearside rear.

    Thanks for the suggestions so far.
     
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  7. legend-ary Moderator Staff Team

    United Kingdom Legend The Big Smoke
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    Have you tried jacking the rear up and rotating wheels by hand?? how freely do they move??
    My Jazz had bad bearings on either sides and it sounded like a loud humm initially but later on one of them got so bad that I could feel trim vibrating...
     
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  8. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
    98
    14
    Ok, have the car up and have only concentrated on the nearside at the Mo.
    The offside sounds ok - just the brake pads catching the disc, noise.
    The nearside was similar but much noisier. I removed the wheel and the noise appeared to be coming from the back plate. I tried adjusting (bending!) the back plate to no avail, so I removed the rear caliper and immediately noticed the first problem, the external brake pad was in good nick but the internal pad had about 1mm left on it, possibly a seized caliper. I removed the disc/drum and noticed straight away that the back plate had corroded badly and was catching the disc in such a way that it had cut a groove in the disc. Maybe that's my groaning noise??
    The wheel bearing feels fine.
     
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  9. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    All those brake things are par for the course on 7th Generation Tourer, rubbing back plate makes either a screeching or a scraping noise, same goes for a pad worn that much. Also, discs usually have a small run-out, so when there is noise caused by a back-plate or a stuck caliper, the noise is not constant during each wheel revolution, and, it can be heard at low speeds, including walking speed. Note also that it might be sticking pads or sticking sliders that have caused the wear on one pad.

    So, depending what you mean by a groan, it is most probably the bearing. When the groan/rumble/drone begins, you cannot detect anything in the bearing when you rotate the wheel by hand. As the bearing starts to wear more, the groan/rumble/drone gets louder and can be heard over a wider range of speeds, until eventually you can hear a slight clicking sound in the bearing when you rotate the wheel by hand.
     
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  10. sawf1 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom James Poole
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    I think jimjams is right that it's most likely the wheel bearing, but I think if it were me I'd sort the brake problems first. Just in case it's causing the groaning in a way you wouldn't expect.
     
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  11. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
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    14

    All those brake things are par for the course on 7th Generation Tourer, rubbing back plate makes either a screeching or a scraping noise, same goes for a pad worn that much. Also, discs usually have a small run-out, so when there is noise caused by a back-plate or a stuck caliper, the noise is not constant during each wheel revolution, and, it can be heard at low speeds, including walking speed. Note also that it might be sticking pads or sticking sliders that have caused the wear on one pad.

    The 'noise' I hear can be heard at walking pace and is quite noisy (and embarrassing!!) when driving through a busy town!
    Also, sliders don't appear to be seized.


    So, depending what you mean by a groan, it is most probably the bearing. When the groan/rumble/drone begins, you cannot detect anything in the bearing when you rotate the wheel by hand. As the bearing starts to wear more, the groan/rumble/drone gets louder and can be heard over a wider range of speeds, until eventually you can hear a slight clicking sound in the bearing when you rotate the wheel by hand.

    Bearing 'does' feel ok so I have rebuilt the rear end albeit without the brake pads fitted, have clamped the brake pipe so that it does not operate and will run the car around for a few days to see if the 'noise' returns.
    I have so far driven 6 miles and all I have heard so far is the scraping noise of the back plate on the rear disc. This is definitely not the noise as it is much quieter than what I have been hearing and is also constant..

    On a separate note but may be connected?, with the caliper seemingly ok and not seized, is it possible the pads were fitted incorrectly??
     
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  12. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    If you can hear it at walking pace then it's not the bearing, and it probably was the worn pad. The pads on the saloon and Tourer are different, and very often, many non-OEM suppliers will supply saloon pads for the Tourer by mistake. If there is a nodule on the rear centre of the pad, it's for the saloon. Even OEM Tourer pads are about 1mm too long, even in the OEM caliper. Pads in the Tourer rear caliper are a pain in the neck.
     
    Last edited: Saturday 6th Aug, 2016
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  13. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
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    Tell me more Mate,
    The new pads arrived today and at a glance, I don't think they fit??
    The new pads are the same shape & size but the piston pad has three spring clips that push into a piston, I'm fairly certain that the Accord pistons are flat??
    I have re-checked the fitment code and they ARE supposed to fit my car!
     
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  14. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    It depends where you got the pads from, most places other than a dealer, mstakenly supply saloon pads for the Tourer (same goes for the rear wheel bearings).

    Two pics of proper Tourer pads, there are no nodules on the outer pad (1st pic) so that the shims fit , and one nodule on the lower left on the inner pad (2nd pic)
    Tourer_pads_1.

    Tourer_pads_2.

    Pads like this next pic are supplied by mistake very frequently, if the pads you received are like this, they're wrong
    Tourer-pads_not.



    In the following link to an HK DIY you can see the proper 7th Generation saloon pads, if the pads you have are like those, again they're wrong
    Rear Disc Brake & Pad Replacement

    Also look at the exploded diagrams of 7th Generation rear brakes in this thread
    Vital Brakes Maintenance Information

    Rear pads and sliders are the main issues on the 7th Generation rear brakes, especially the Tourer.

    btw, I should have asked at what speeds you could hear the noise right from the start LOL
     
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  15. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
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    Thanks, the pads I have are the correct ones. The ones that come off are the wrong ones with the three 'nodules' as you call them on the back of the piston pad.
    Will install and see what happens.

    Thanks for the help.
     
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  16. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    I don't know what those "bumps" are called on the back of the pads ....I could only think of "nodule" as being the opposite of "dimple" .... I wonder if there is a name for a raised cylindrical shape with a domed top LOL
     
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  17. stratos Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Andy Worcs
    98
    14
    Very true, best to keep it clean!!

    Those 'nodules' have put a dent into the pistons!! Some moron at the garage when I bought the car obviously fitted the wrong pads!! and judging by the state of the discs, they gave never worked properly.
    Let's hope that that was the cause of my noise!!
     
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  18. NottsBiker Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    Ben Nottingham
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    Had the same issue with incorrect pads being fitted. As a stop gap I filed them off and refitted them....a year ago....

    Mine makes a funny vibrating / graunch when I finally come to a halt. Bet is the pads
     
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  19. Bounder Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Ireland Huan County Cork
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    Locating pin would be a better name than Nodule?
    I did mine when I first got it back in February, cleaned the brake cylinders out and the rust off the pistons, refitted the old seals and plenty of red rubber grease over all the parts that might get rusty.
    Cleaned the sliders and regreased them, new TRW discs and Bosch pads (very dusty ) and they are wearing evenly now, the TRW discs have the unswept surfaces painted black so they resist rust better than unpainted versions but VHT high temp paint will also work with appropriate masking.
     
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  20. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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