Engine & Gearbox Occasional stalling on cold start

Discussion in '1st Generation (2004-2011)' started by kamb1ng, Sunday 16th Nov, 2014.

  1. kamb1ng New Member Getting Started

    Hi all. I live in Cambridge and own a 2005 FR-V SE 1.7 Petrol. I've owned it for almost 5 years. It's always been serviced at a local Honda garage and has 85k miles.

    I've been having occasional issues since about a month ago with the car stalling on cold start. Normally first thing in the morning and sometimes during the day after the car has been parked for 5-6 hours. This does not happen every single day, only from time to time.

    When it happens, the car starts but then quickly stalls after a few seconds. Sometimes I can back it out of the driveway if I keep my foot on the accelerator but then it would stall again. I usually just keep my foot down and start driving off. Once I drive off it will never stall again. It never stalls when I'm cruising on the road or when stopping (traffic light, etc).

    Right before this started happening a month ago I had the starter motor completely replaced. The reason is because the car refused to start one day. The engine wouldn't even turn at all. I kept trying and after a while it started. Drove it to the Honda garage, shut it off, then it refused to turn again. So had the starter motor replaced. No more starting problem since, but now the stalling problem.

    Is the stalling problem related to the starter motor replacement? Any other idea I can look at? The garage told me that it would cost £72 just to diagnose the problem - is this right?

    Many thanks for everyone's help in advance.
     
  2. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    14,999
    5,595
    4
    @kamb1ng pop over to the Introduce Yourself section and say a few words about yourself and your car. This helps us to get to know you and your car, thereby aids us in helping you.

    Starter motor replacement shouldn't be related to the stalling, unless they unplugged something and didn't quite plug it in properly. I would get them to first check if the plugged everything in again.
     
    Loading...
  3. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
    9,206
    2,977
    3
    I don't see the starter being related to the stalling, once you stop turning the key the starter is left disengaged from the engine completely (and if it didn't disengage, you'd sure hear it).

    There's many things it could be, when were the spark plugs last changed? Has the throttle body or intake manifold ever been cleaned to remove any built-up carbon deposits? When was the air filter last changed for that matter?

    At a basic level, you need 3 ingredients, fuel, air and spark. It'll most likely be something simple relating to that recipe which is causing the engine to stall :Smile:
     
    Loading...
  4. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    14,999
    5,595
    4
    The starter issue itself won't be related but if the car has recently been worked on and the problem started to occur after this, seems a bit coincidental.
     
    Loading...
  5. John Dickson Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Could it just be as simple as fouled plugs? I remember years a go I had a Nissan Micra (bomb-proof little car it was just ran and ran) but it had one small problem.

    Often if I started it from cold and just moved it off the drive for example when it was cold it would then be very difficult to start the next time. It would start after a few attempts and starting with full throttle. When it did start there was rich smoke from the exhaust and it smelled as if it was running very rich. Then it was fine.

    This problem was prevented if I let it idle for 1 -2 minutes after a cold start, blipping the throttle a couple of times before switching off so I never got it investigated as I could get around the problem.

    It was also never a problem if the car had already been warmed up and was stopped then started and moved off the drive.

    I suspect the rich cold start mixture was slightly over-rich and was fouling the plugs, which was prevented if the car was warmed up or even ran for a short time as I describe above, as the over-rich mixture was getting burned off.

    Just a thought.
     
    Loading...
  6. Merk1981 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    My diesel FR-V hesitated on start up this morning for the first time. A big puff of smoke came out of the exhaust when the engine fired up. Could this be dodgy fuel or is something else going on?
     
  7. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    What colour was the smoke?
     
    Loading...
  8. Merk1981 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    White from what I recall. It started as normal this evening. Strange.
     
  9. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    I'm not an expert here but white smoke on a cold startup could indicate fouling around the piston rings or cylinder glazing. Possibly water ingress from a bad head gasket or a cracked cylinder head/block but there's also things like a bad injector(s), low compression, poor timing or just bad diesel.

    But if it was just a big puff and it disappeared long before the engine warmed up then I'd just put it down to a bit of moisture in the fuel and I'd put a shot of some decent fuel treatment in - one which combats moisture in the fuel system such as this stuff: Fuel System Cleaner which I use although it can be difficult to get if outside of the trade. It's best to look for something that is TUV approved as at least it's been through some strict testing. You could also check out Liqui Moly, although I've never used it: Liqui Moly Oil Treatments, Car Oil, Fuel Treatments and More
     
    Loading...
  10. Merk1981 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    It was gone long before the engine was warm so hopefully its just a little moisture. I've heard mixed reports on fuel additives though so the closest I usually get is a tank of BP Ultimate.
     
  11. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    14,999
    5,595
    4
    Conversely could just be condensation in the exhaust pipe just evaporating off.
     
    Loading...
    DeviateDefiant likes this.
  12. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    3,521
    1,051
    7
    Regarding fuel treatments, I never really looked at them in the right way until I discussed it with my uncle. I think the problem is that people expect to see instant results (as I did) but the good treatments don't work like that. He told me of how they would strip out fuel tanks and find a silt like substance in them which has built up over time. Then you can get this crap sometimes getting past the filters and blocking your injectors. The good fuel treatments will emulsify it all so that it can actually pass through the system and burn off (and also deal with any moisture which I believe can be more present than people realise) - so logic would suggest that you may actually see a performance drop at first (perhaps explaining the 5th Gear test that was done?) but once it's cleaned things up then you should see either restored performance or simply a reduction in the chance of experiencing problems in the future. I guess it's more of a long term preventative maintenance function rather than a performance type one.

    I also use BP Ultimate and fortunately the local one to my work is very busy so they have regular deliveries and it reduces the chance of the tanks under the ground being run down to where there can be moisture sitting. I'm not touching the diesel at work until the tank is renewed lol


    Regarding the exhaust, would the exhaust heat up enough straight away to evaporate water?
     
    Loading...
  13. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    14,999
    5,595
    4
    Yep, exhaust heats up super quick mate.
     
    Loading...
  14. John Dickson Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    I think diesel is worse than petrol for "going off" quickly. Yes petrol loses a lot of its volatile content leading to reduction in burn quality but diesel absorbs a lot of water from the air relatively quickly. This will cause problems in filters etc as the diesel/water don't mix but diesel still attracts it out of the air and as they don't mix you will get diesel and water droplets in your fuel system and I imagine this will block filters possibly even injectors as corrosion is bound to occur as well.

    I'm not an expert either I'm just assuming this as diesel cars have a light warning of water accumulation in the filter.

    I'm not sure if fuel stabiliser additives will whelps with diesel like they do with petrol.
     
    Loading...
  15. Princepugh Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom David Sheffield
    81
    33
    You can get diesel additives specifically for this known problem and its also recommended to change the fuel filter if you suspect water contamination.

    Petrol additives is a whole other world of debate - when I last looked at this, polyetheramine was reckoned to be the best active ingredient capable of helping to remove engine/ injector deposits, although you will get mixed views and any large 'debris' will still end up in the injector baskets, apparently. I actually had the injectors on my previous car cleaned and it did make a difference, it ran better and I got a couple more MPG but it was a bit of a faff having to remove them and send them off. The guy who did the clean was able to demonstrate the improvement to the jet pattern and flow rates across the cylinders. Pity this is not a more commonly available service as whilst our engines have multiple injectors, there's only on lambda sensor for the whole bank of cylinders so we can't be certain to be achieving perfect combustion in each cylinder as the computer can only adjust for the overall exhaust content....

    Hrmm, dare I mention TerraClean? Not that it's much of a help to the OP in this instance.

    PP
     
    Loading...
  16. Merk1981 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Well the car has started issue free another 2 times since the stutter and puff of smoke. I've put it down to a temporary fuel / moisture blip.

    Thanks for the advice everyone.
     
  17. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,177
    6,406
    516
    @kamb1ng any updates on this?
     
    Loading...
  18. ricksmith Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Hi all
    Great believer in redex. Used to put a cap full in my old fj12 carberated obviously and never had a problem with the petrol going off when stored over winter or in fact any petrol related problems.....In fact I never had a problem with it at all in its 22 yrs....why did I get rid???? Sorry boys just ranting...but redex is good stuff.
     
  19. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,177
    6,406
    516
    Buy the best quality fuel, premium fuel non ethanol its has all the additives to ensure clean injectors or carbs remain healthy.

    Stay well clear of

    bNgezL56.
     
    Loading...