Intake System P0122 Throttle Position Sensor

Discussion in '7th Generation (2001-2005)' started by cardboardcutout, Wednesday 21st Jan, 2015.

  1. cardboardcutout Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Doug Sussex
    8
    Good Day All,

    can this be so rare that my searches turned up nothing? Its a 2004 Civic 1.6i Exec. Automatic, with the above intermittent fault. Garage laptop produced the following :-

    "P0122 Throttle Position Sensor A/Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) Sensor A - Low Input".

    It doesn't have the APP, i.e. its cable throttled.

    It seems reluctant to change up though the gears and I can pursuade it by lifting off the accelerator.

    Of course Honda want £800 just for the new throttle body, the sensor being integral. Swapping the whole throttle body is well within my abilities and seems the obvious solution bearing in mind how cheaply they are available second hand.

    Complication is that the car is SORN in a barn several hours away and I need to be fully educated and equipped before I set off to fix it!

    After replacing the throttle body, will it need calibrating and/or fault cancelling, or will it be plug and play?

    Can anyone relate their experiences fixing this?

    Many thanks - cardboardcutout
     
  2. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,129
    6,381
    516
    So you say this as been checked by a Honda dealer? Can you just clarify who has done the diagnostics what are the symptoms your car is experiencing? have to tried deleting this error and then checking the car behaviour?

    I have never heard of a I-CTDI ever needing its TB changing BTW . So before we go into hardware more need more info.
     
    Loading...
  3. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
    9,206
    2,976
    3
    It's a 1.6 mate, so it's a D16 EU8 not an I-CDTI. Definitely needs more thorough investigation though.
     
    Loading...
  4. cardboardcutout Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Doug Sussex
    8
    It is indeed a EU8 D16V1 as DeviateDefiant suggests, and no, it hasn't been checked by a Honda dealer. I should have clarified, it was just a guy with a laptop and a generic fault reading program.

    A fault free 300 + mile motorway drive, then next morning on start-up, the CEL and reluctance to change up through the gears. Straight to the local indy mechanic for the above diagnosis but I had no time to get it sorted, as the purpose of the trip was to deposit the car for storage and head straight home. He did clear the fault and a few miles later the problem and CEL reappeared.

    Interesting you don't think its a frequent fault. I realise I'm not able to provide much to go on.

    The car is between Hartlepool and Durham. I would appreciate any recommendations of mechanics in that area in case I can't fix it when I go up. Pity its untaxed and uninsured though……..

    Thanks again - cardboardcutout
     
  5. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
    9,206
    2,976
    3
    APP/TPS issues aren't unheard of at all, but the first time I've heard of one on the 7th Generation Civic. I would be inclined to just replace the throttle body with one from a breakers if the code has already been cleared once unsuccessfully.

    The reason @Ichiban brings up Honda diagnostics is that with HDS you'd be able to read the sensor output and see what it's doing under certain conditions and confirm the diagnostic before chucking money at it with parts.
    - - - Updated - - -
    @SpeedyGee have some input on this, his wife's car is an EU8.
     
    Loading...
  6. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,129
    6,381
    516
    I could have sworn it was I-CTDI before the post was edited:Fear:..
     
    Loading...
  7. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
    9,206
    2,976
    3
    Aha, it wasn't mate :Tongue:
     
    Loading...
  8. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Stoke
    1,115
    685
    1
    Not come across APP faults on an EU8? No bulletins or hints and tips either. Carrying out a resistance check and input/output test on the throttle body may successfully diagnose the fault. My services don't come cheap though, working for a stealer and all that.
     
    Loading...
  9. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    14,999
    5,593
    4
    I think it's a duff code, there's no APP on an EU8. Get the code re-read with a reputable OBD reader.
     
    Loading...
  10. cardboardcutout Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Doug Sussex
    8
    Thanks to All for your useful input.

    SpeedyGee, the code readout P0122 apparently covered TPS and APP; I presumed it was one or the other, but did wonder why there was one code for either/both of two potentially faulty components…..

    Bearing in mind I can get a used TB for what I'd pay a garage for hooking up the diagnostic, and TPS failure is apparently rare, and that the car is on an isolated farm SORN, logistically its looking to be easier for me to simply take a replacement TB up there (Durham) and hope for the best.

    Thanks Beefy for the TPS resistance check suggestion. I had in fact seen videos on the 'tube on this. I worry I might connect my meter up wrong and blow the TPS so I'm still leaning toward a simple TB swap.

    I have learnt somewhere that a possible cause of the issue is dirt in the venturi(?) where the butterfly contacts the sides, meaning the sensor doesn't register full closure of the flap. Is this conceivable, and if so, what to clean it with? Carb cleaner?

    I greatly appreciate the input on this. All advice gratefully received.

    Regards - cardboardcutout
     
  11. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,129
    6,381
    516
  12. cardboardcutout Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Doug Sussex
    8
    Thanks for your interest, no news yet.

    There's no urgency, the car won't be needed for a few months, and I will need a few days to travel the several hours to where its stored, to try to fix it.

    At this point my plan is to just get a second hand throttle body or two and hope the TPS is the problem, unless someone comes up with more suggestions.

    I will of course keep the readership posted!

    Regards - cardboardcutout
     
  13. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    30,129
    6,381
    516
    I won't buy anything until unless you can establish this code is erasable , if you do a PCM reset and a idle learn then look at the code again. I do recommend not to blindly change parts because the code says so.

    If the code goes away on deletion then you know its a error reporting rather than an actual fault. You have just saved a lot of money in the process for a part you don't need.
     
    Loading...
  14. cardboardcutout Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Doug Sussex
    8
    Thanks for that advice - I'll have to leave it until a few months from now when I put it back on the road.

    Regards - cardboardcutout
     
  15. cardboardcutout Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Doug Sussex
    8
    So I can try to electrically test the TPS, can anyone tell me which pin is which in the connector? All I have is the Haynes manual which of course doesn't go that deep, and a few Youtube vids have encouraged me to apply my multimeter "skills".

    I take on board the advice about the advantage of getting it properly diagnosed before doing anything else, but since its SORN and uninsured in a barn miles from me, but I might as well do all I can before giving in and calling in professional help.

    I am leaning toward (a) putting a used TB on it just in case the sensor is shot, (b) cleaning out the TB and testing the sensor if I can (see above), then (c) getting it to the nearest Honda for a diagnostic. Unfortunately they don't have a mobile service to come out and diagnose it on site.

    Thanks for all advice so far, and your patience.

    Regards - cardboardcutout
     
  16. cardboardcutout Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Doug Sussex
    8
    Hello All.

    Continuing this saga,

    Finally got up North to attend to the TPS problem. Replaced the throttle body complete, and the fault has gone away, so rather pleased since the TB cost me £18 and all I did was clean it and swap the cable cam over which was a different shape (auto vs. manual?).
    It drives fine now, but I've introduced another issue, fluctuating idle revs.
    With a regular frequency of about 3 seconds per cycle, the idle speed smoothly goes from 1000 to 2000 and repeat. And repeat. And repeat……
    Has anyone any ideas on this?
    At least its now drivable, so I can look at it when I bring it out of hibernation / SORN in a couple of months.
    Many thanks, musang
     
  17. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    14,999
    5,593
    4
    Hunting is usually down to IACV or air lock in water system or air leakage somewhere.
     
    Loading...
  18. cardboardcutout Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Doug Sussex
    8
    Thanks SpeedyGee, that gives me something to go on. Might I have introduced an air lock re-attaching the IAC valve pipes? And why doesn't it pump itself through?

    cardboardcutout
     
  19. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    14,999
    5,593
    4
    The pipes are small in diameter so it's easy to cause an air lock. If you disconnect the top one, that should help confirm that water is circulating.

    Also search the site and read up on the idle learn procedure. You may also need to do this.