Engine & Gearbox P16CD Glow Plug Circuit Open

Discussion in '8th Generation (2008-2015) [Acura TSX]' started by deeno1975, Tuesday 10th May, 2016.

  1. deeno1975 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Killian Ireland
    62
    16
    1
    All,

    Just got this error code on my 8th Generation 2.2 Ex Honda Accord and am scratching my head as to the next move... Any suggestions and help much appreciated??

    The history of the problem is as follows
    • Got an error on the dash PGM-FI about 2 weeks ago
    • I cleared the error message
    • Error went away for 5 days but is now back and now every time I clear it it comes back
    • The error is a "P16CD Glow Plug Circuit Open"
    • Now the car is running perfect, starts no problem, the glow plug indicator on the dash comes on and goes off with no apparent issues. If I didn't get the message on the dash I would be none the wiser that there was an issue.
    • Anyone come across this issue and any suggested course of action, could it be a glow plug, could it be a relay??? Incidentally which way are the cylinders numbered on the Honda 1 to 4, left to right as you face them from the front of the car???
    Any suggestions and help much appreciated??

    Thanks,

    Killian
     
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  2. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Sounds like the relay to me. can you get a known good working one and see if these codes drop off.
     
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  3. deeno1975 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Killian Ireland
    62
    16
    1
    Thanks Ichiban
    I know someone here with the same Honda, it is easy to switch out a relay and put another one in and where is it located??? How much "ish" is a relay??
     
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  4. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Pass mate replacing the cost in Ireland it will be expensive compared to here. There is the location of the glow plug module.

    upload_2016-5-10_10-52-35.

    Remove the nut (A).
    Disconnect the glow plug control module connector (B).
    Remove the glow plug control module (C).
    Install the parts in the reverse order of removal.

    upload_2016-5-10_10-54-45.
     
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  5. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Keep us posted it could be simple poor connection , clean it with contact cleaner and try.
     
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  6. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    215 is top dollar retail there will be some room for discount via HH. Swap it from your mates car for a few days to see if that comes back if it does then its something else. looking at the troubleshooting flow you may have to use HDS to do the glow on and off inspection to rule out the issue.
     
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  7. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom .
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    I think its just glowplug #1. You can disconnect it and check the continuity with a multimeter, but it would be better to use a car headlight bulb to draw current through it by using it as an earth return to one side of the bulb, with the other side of the bulb to battery. +. Hope this makes sense?
     
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  8. deeno1975 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Killian Ireland
    62
    16
    1
    Thanks Zebster, you've lost me there a bit I'm afraid...

    So to take it step by step...
    • Remove the wire from the heater plug number 1 (presume this is the one nearest the belt drive and furthest from the gear box)
    • Do I need to remove the glow plug to test???
    • Or do I put leave the glow plug in and put one side of the headlight onto the top of the glow plug and the other to the disconnected wire and then earth the light bulb to see if it lights up???
    • What is the best test using the multimeter??
    Thanks,

    Killian
     
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  9. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom .
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    The best test is to use a (spare) headlight bulb, as it will draw several amps through the glow plug to give it a full test. The glowplug remains in place, All you do is pull the connection off and put it safely to one side. Ignition stays off. Run a wire (a jump lead, say) from the glowplug top to one of the bulb connections (any 55w headlight bulb is ideal) and then run another wire from the remaining bulb connection to battery positive. It the glowplug is good, then it will provide an earth return for the bulb, and the bulb will light up. You may as well repeat this for all 4.

    If all are ok, then I can describe how to check the supply using a bulb, but a voltmeter would be better for this.
     
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  10. deeno1975 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Killian Ireland
    62
    16
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    just done some googling and
    Hi Zebster, thanks for that, makes sense now that I think about it. Just did some googling on how to check the resistance using a multimeter and check for ohmic resistance. Off to purchase a multimeter now. Will keep ye posted when I get the chance to get at it now that I'm fore armed.
     
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  11. Zebster Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom .
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    Better to use a bulb! It draws much more current and will show up a failing glowplug.
     
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  12. deeno1975 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Killian Ireland
    62
    16
    1
    Had a look this morning and before I can check the glow plugs I discovered they are buried in the back of the engine. Ouch!!

    Anyone have to "how to" to what needs to be done to get access to the glow plugs as I don't want to go ripping and get myself into deep horse manure??
     
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  13. julekasMobilek Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Lithuania Julius Vilnius
    72
    17
    Hello, i have just the same error message in my dash, and here is my story: PGM-FI.
    I have had cheap OBD2 Bluetooth scanner and torque android software, did some error code reading. Have error code:
    Fault code P16CD: NO. 1 GLOW PLUG CIRCUIT OPEN
    2016-05-02 15.38.30.

    The solution is pretty straight forward, replace the faulty glow plug.

    But I did some digging to,
    I have measured the resistance of each glow plug, three of them was about 1.2 Ohms, and faulty one have had 32 Ohms, so obviously that one is faulty, but that glow plug was still functioning.

    I little bit played with it:
    2016-05-04 18.10.24. 2016-05-04 18.11.22.

    Hondas glow plugs rated at only 11 volts, so be careful and do not test it on battery directly when you bought new ones :Smile:
    Bought new glow plug (BERU brand), it is also rated on 11Volts.

    Here is comparison between BERU (top) and original honda (bottom) glow plugs.
    2016-05-04 17.42.10. 2016-05-04 17.42.15. 2016-05-04 17.42.19.

    As you can see both ends are a little bit different, but no worries, they are perfect fit, even a glow plug cap clips on perfectly. Also the lenght of them is identical.
    It is recommended to change all four glow plugs at once, but i did it only one. Because it is super easy to change it. You don't have to have special tools.
    Just take off engine cover, with flat screwdriver take off a plastic cover and now you can screw out all four glow plugs if needed. You need long 10mm head socet ranch. I did it in 5minutes. 30mins tops.
    Also be careful to not over tighten it, it can easily snap in half, that would be pain in the a... to take it out. Usually, when that happens, it needed to do by expert to drill out left overs of snapped glow plug.
    Let your child or girlfriend to tight it :Smile: Also after few trips you can check how your new plug is hanging there, are the no leaks of diesel or some sort of particles, if not - job is completed.

    Here some pics after installation:
    2016-05-04 17.56.01. 2016-05-04 17.56.07. 2016-05-04 17.56.14.
    You can easily identify where is new one, and old ones.

    And yes - no more PGM-FI errors.

    As you can see my glow plug was faulty (error come up in the dash), but technically the glow plug was working and even in winter, i think, i will be able to start my car. But i didn't take the risk. I think ECU module is programmed like, if glow plug reaches 25ohms resistance, throw an error.
     
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  14. julekasMobilek Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Lithuania Julius Vilnius
    72
    17
    Here is DIY:
    1. Remove that gorgeous engine cover
    00-engine.
    2. The glow plugs are behind the engine. Below the strut bar. No need to take it, to give access to them. It is up to yuo if you think, that strut bar should be removed.
    01-engine.
    3. Just numbered all glow plugs, from 1 to 4.
    02-glow_plug_numbering.

    4. Taken this photo just below the strut bar. You can easily see that plastic cover. Which you must remove. It covers only one ant two glow plugs.
    03-plastic_cover.
    4. Marked two clips that holding that plastic cover. Before taking it off, disconnect both glow plugs leads.
    04-plastic_cover_clips.
    Glow plugs leads.
    05-glow_plugs_cap. 06-glow_plugs_cap2.

    And that's it. To change first or second glow plugs is very easy job. To take off the last one (4th) it is the most difficult, because it is very deep. But with long 10mm socket wrench it should be no problems. :
     

    Attached Files:

  15. legend-ary Moderator Staff Team

    United Kingdom Legend The Big Smoke
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    Great bit of info and DIY @julekasMobilek. If we can have @staff maybe compile this into a DIY section it will help others sort out their glow plugs.
     
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  16. deeno1975 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Killian Ireland
    62
    16
    1
    Thanks @julekasMobilek , fair play to you, that took a lot of effort and very much appreciated. I got a reading from Glow plug number 1 and it is reading 45 Ohms resistance so that is indeed the problem. Will order the part and replace and leave result here. Did some more searching and the torque setting on the glow plus is 20 n-m.

    Thanks again.
     
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  17. julekasMobilek Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Lithuania Julius Vilnius
    72
    17
    Glad to help, is it a coincidence that on both accord blew the first one glow plug? :Grin:
     
  18. deeno1975 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Killian Ireland
    62
    16
    1
    Just to give closure, changed glow plug number 1, easy operation (thanks @julekasMobilek for your guide), reset the error and now back to Perfect Motoring Order. Just to say the level of torque required is auld lady of 90 level...

    Thanks all
     
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  19. legend-ary Moderator Staff Team

    United Kingdom Legend The Big Smoke
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    Great news @deeno1975
    Now that you are all sorted why not add your car to the club garage and stick around :Wink:
     
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