Engine & Gearbox Stalling, low power, some black smoke...err help!

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by trent900, Friday 30th Dec, 2011.

  1. trent900 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    12
    Hi

    I'm new to this forum - my little intro is in the intros section. So...I have several problems which seem to me to have a common cause, that I hope someone can help me with. I am going to take it to a dealer to have a professional diagnostic, but I am trying to educate myself as well.

    The car: 54 plate (Jan 05) Accord Tourer 2.2 I-CTDI, 80k miles. I think it's the Sport model, so big wide tyres, stiff suspension and no roof rails, for whatever that's worth.

    The problem: in late summer it started to stall when approaching junctions. Not often, and not viciously, I would just arrive at a junction with the clutch fully depressed and find the engine off. This was at about 70k miles. It also did it once while I was lazily changing from 3rd to 4th, in movement. That time also the glow plug indicator flashed to indicate a fault, but this cleared itself when I did what the manual suggested and ran the engine for 30 seconds only 3 times. On idle, there would be some dipping of the revs, and the occasional stall, like someone dropping off to sleep in a chair - head goes down and then snaps back up.

    This then seemed to clear itself up and I stopped having problems that I could notice.

    A recent service by a non-specialist and non-dealer but a very good mechanic said that there were two fault codes stored, one low fuel pressure at the injectors and the other one that wasn't in his reference list, but these were both old and were cleared. I assumed this was from my in-motion stall (see above). He did, however, change the fuel filter and the other filters. Since then, I've had a variety of interesting symptoms: It's stalled a couple of times as it did before. Also, if I bury it in 3rd then at about 3200-3500 revs very commonly the revs will drop quite sharply, giving the car quite a sharp jerk. This happens several times in quick succession. Burying it in 4th often but not always gives a drop in power at 2500 revs, but not the jerks, maybe because I change up before then! In fifth, I haven't felt anything that seems to be engine-related (the clutch may be slipping a bit, but that's another story).

    Once a couple of days ago I got out to rearrange luggage and the engine almost stalled several times a few seconds apart. I happened to be at the back of the car, and so noticed that each time it almost stalled, a small cloud of black smoke was produced a moment later. I haven't had any other obvious smoking problems (but I haven't been looking very carefully).

    Just on my way home today the engine struggled to get above idle for a few seconds, then the flashing warning signal came on and it entered 'limp mode'. Multiple restarts as suggested in manual have again cleared the warning, and the engine starts and runs fine bar the problems above.

    Any discussion or suggestions welcome. I'm interested in learning so feel free to explain any theories. As stated, I will take it to a dealer as I have now had enough problems to want an 'official' solution, but I want to do my best to avoid spending a mint changing random engine parts and not solving the problems.

    Many thanks in advance!

    trent900
     
  2. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Hi Trent,
    These symptoms are all too common from fuel filter changes. When you changed the fuel filter what make and variety of fuel filter was used. There are countless stories where accord owners have fitted an pattern part and see all sort of fuelling issue and particularly the error message stored in your cars ECU.

    If you change the fuel filter to a genuine Honda fuel filter and make sure the air from the system is bleed thoroughly you will not face the low fuel pressure issue.

    You can also have a look at the post links below explaining this situation in finer details; If I were you I would change the fuel filter first and then take stock of things. If that doesn't help then you need specialist diagnostics preferable a place with a track record of fixing the Honda diesel cars. I could recommend our resident forum sponsor Holdcroft Honda at stoke for this. Once your post count is up you will see their section and their preferential services for all AOC members . I can assure they won’t throw parts at it to fix ,they are good troubleshooters. Don't take my word for it thou if you go down you will soon find out.


    Engine & Gearbox - i-CTDi Diesel engine hesitation and loss of power • Honda Karma
    Engine & Gearbox - i-CTDi Intermittent loss of power with no DTC’s stored on ECU • Honda Karma
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sunday 23rd Feb, 2014
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  3. trent900 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    12
    Thank you!

    Fuel filter was one of my thoughts, but I have had similar symptoms both before and after a changed filter. Maybe a non-genuine filter was replaced by another non-genuine one!

    I will certainly consider heading out to Stoke, it's not that far.
     
  4. RobB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    As per CJ above, your faults all seem like a non Honda Fuel filter. The diesel is so sensitive when it comes to fuel filters.
     
  5. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

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    Your welcome do please keep us posted on your developments.
     
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  6. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

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    I am going to do an article soon on this to why it happens. watch this space.
     
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  7. RobB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Looking forward to it. It would good to know why the diesel is so sensitive. I always assumed it was because the Honda filters are made to a higher tolerance.
     
  8. SayamaAccord Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    Refreshingly sensible if you don't mind me saying so. As suggested an OEM fuel filter may well assist if not already fitted, but over and above that you need a proper diagnosis rather than blindly throwing money at the problem.
     
  9. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    sounds like your car is feeling a little sorry for itself! first thing you need to do is have your car looked at by someone that understands the I-CTDI engine. as said above the most common fueling fault is a blocked or aftermarket filter, allso incorectly fitted fuel pipes etc. on the other hand i am afraid not knowing your cars history, its becoming more common for people to miss fuel there cars and damage the high preasure fuel pump. you say your clutch slips? perhapse the jerks are flywheel related? better get it lookd at sooner rather than later.
     
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  10. AccordCU2 Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    I had same thing with my previous car.I changed fuel filter.IMRC valve,used V-power diesel only but car kept stalling and losing power.car was hooked on HDS and injectors 1 and 4 were out and needed to be recalibrated which somebody kindly did it for me but that didnt solve the problem.i was told it might be high pressure fuel pump but before i had a chance to find out i sold my car and bought myself petrol Accord.hopefully you won't have same problem like me and sort this out quickly and cheap.best of luck
     
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  11. trent900 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    12
    Thanks all.

    Current update - OEM (Bosch) fuel filter has been fitted - still got problems. Well, it seems to rev to redline OK now, but still has problems with uneven idling, stalling when coasting to a stop, and occasionally no throttle response which is cured by restarting the engine. Seems to be worse when the engine is warm. Also seems to be worst when coasting to a stop from 3rd gear in particular, oddly!

    I did think about flywheels and EGR valve but the fact that in general it drives fine, no knocking or juddering suggests to me not flywheel related and the total lack of all but the tiniest puffs of black smoke suggests to me not EGR related. I am starting to lean towards a sensing problem...in my opinion fuel rail pressure sensor. But what do I know, I am not going to pretend to be an expert it is going to a dealer for proper diagnostics.

    One final question before this happens - IchibanAccord above recommends the Stoke-on-Trent dealer specifically. Can I ask why? Is there a strong reason why I would go across there rather than hit up Lookers in Derby? Obviously a local dealer is much more convenient, but if the Stoke boys really are famously awesome or the Derby people famously not then I will take the hit.

    Cheers
     
  12. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

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    You will need to take the car to a dealer and get it examined and find the root cause. as for selecting a dealer our recommendations as a community and mine are based on facts. Please don't take them as guarantees. You can choose who ever you feel is best and convenient for you.

    They are mere recommendation and not a contract.:Smile:
     
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  13. AccordCU2 Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    It is entirely up to you where you take your car.I live in Birmingham but take my car to Holdcroft Honda in Stoke only.i can't recommend them enough,they know what they doing and service is brilliant.Very helpful people.
     
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  14. trent900 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    12
    OK Sold.

    Thanks all.

    If I get a solution to this I'll post it, as Zoran has had the same problem.
     
  15. trent900 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    12
    Well so in case anyone's interested, this is the post-Holdcroft update:

    They have swapped out the fuel pump and ECU after diagnosing possible faults with both - no change.

    They are now saying that it is the injector rail that is failing, with a replacement cost of some ridiculous sum - £1720 or something.

    I don't understand this - the most obvious symptom is that the car will lose throttle response. You bury the throttle and the engine judders a little and the warning light blinks. You then restart the engine and it's as if nothing was ever wrong. Now am I foolish for thinking this sounds like an electrical problem since a simple restart cures it?

    Anyway, there is no chance in hell that I am paying for the proposed repair since it fails the 'webuyanycar' test: it's worth £4200 maybe in good working order and even with the faults I can probably get £2500. Add the cost of a clutch replacement into the mix and it's bye bye Honda and one unhappy owner back to owning bangers. All very depressing.

    However I must add my good impressions of Holdcroft, they have been responsive, kept me up to date on what they're doing and how much it will/might cost at all times, they've given me a courtesy car. Finally, they anticipated that I might well choose not to do the repair and had a backup option - they are only charging me an hour's labour for all the work they've done. I am not 100% convinced of their diagnosis, but nonetheless very good experience of Holdcroft, very bad experience of a Honda.

    So, if anyone fancies they know what is wrong with this and wants to buy it off me let me know :Wink: otherwise thanks for your help and advice, especially for the tip about Holdcroft.
     
  16. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

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    Get a second opinion if you feel the there is a level of doubt the more you get the car examined by the different experts you will get to the bottom of the issue.
     
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  17. AccordCU2 Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Sorry to hear that you didn't sort it out.do what I did,bite the bullet and buy petrol Accord.only things that's gonna cost you is petrol.good luck,hope you find out what it is.
     
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  18. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

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    Trent sorry to hear about your issue and its become into a never ending saga. As Zoran says if you want to stay with a Honda then Petrol are the one to go for ultra reliability , with fuel prices being the same you won't get further on a petrol car in mileage preservative but what you WILL get 100% reliability with no nasty surprises. The only cost you have to worry about is the cost of filling up. The Honda diesel is a good car with a excellent engine but it doesn't half bite your head off when things don't go to plan. .

    I just hope you can get a compromise in between and make the best out of a bad situation.