Suspension, Steering and Brakes Steering issue

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by dom277, Friday 15th Jun, 2012.

  1. dom277 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Hi there, new to the forum and need help.

    I have a 2006 2.2 I-CTDI Sport, and have a steering issue. Basically the steering wheel jolts all over the place, even on only very mildly rough road surfaces (but occasionally on smooth surfaces too), and especially under acceleration (even mild acceleration, but worsens with heavier acceleration) and sometimes under braking too (so when there is load going through the front). It jitters and jolts and pulls - left AND right, a LOT. It's like there's no damping between the road surface and my hands on the wheel, and this is extremely tiring. It is TOO MUCH feedback from the road, and the front end is obviously just way too unsettled. Previously I've owned Ford, VW, Citroen, and 2 other Accords (a 6th Generation petrol and a 7th Generation petrol), and NONE of them had this problem.

    I've been to a very good independent garage AND a Honda main dealer, none of them could find any problems on the suspension, they both had it up on the ramps and checked it over and also test drove (not noticing my problem on their local roads --but it IS there a large amount of the time!) and gave it a clean bill of health. I've had tyres changed, re-balanced, and 4 wheel laser alignment, and yet still no improvement. Tried turning VSA off and on, no difference.

    Apart from this single problem, which does hugely affect driving pleasure and often inspires such a lack of confidence in what the front end is doing,.. apart from this I do love everything else about the car, I love the looks, the engine, the driving position, the reliability, etc, really everything. But due to this one problem I have been and am seriously considering changing car soon if I can't solve it :-/

    So, my question to the forum or anyone reading, is this; has anyone else had this problem, or heard of it? Or what could be a best guess as to the possible cause/s and/or solution/s? The one thing I am thinking maybe to do next is just get the steering rack stripped down and checked, or completely replaced. Any thoughts?

    Any feedback or advice will be much appreciated. Thanks!

    Dom
     
    Last edited: Friday 15th Jun, 2012
  2. Primarycare Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Primary c Northampton
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    Might be a silly question but.. What rims have you got and how low is your rubber, what rubber are you using?

    I have 17s on mine and now the fronts are low it tram lines and is a bit twitchy

    I am sure it has been done but they have checked the obvious for a linkage or joint worn? How many miles has the car done?
     
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  3. dom277 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Hi mate it's on the standard 15 inch alloys, and 195/65/15/V michelin tyres (had continentals on before - no change to this problem). I check the pressures regularly and can feel if one is going a few PSI too low. That's the thing, totally bog standard soft set up on mine but I'll bet it trams and twitches a lot worse than yours on 17s!

    They've checked for all they could see when up on a ramp, all the major stuff and everything visible, I've been told the only way they can check any more is by stripping the whole suspension down, and with the costs of that - and not being sure what if anything they'd find-- it would probably be better just to change car?
     
  4. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Hey and Welcome to AOC ,

    These symptoms are not uncommon on the Accord, they have frustrated a lot of owners,lucky for you there is a solution but can be expensive as the car get old.. The causes of such issue are due to Accord steering and suspension geometry which is very sensitive to changes.

    Any changes in toe,camber,steering spoke angle,unbalanced wheels, uneven tyre wear will upset the neutral feel and balance of the car. The Accord is naturally slightly oversteery but on a street car it is as neutral you will ever get. If you are a good driver you can use the oversteer to your advantage. :Smile:

    Back to your issue

    For Toe and camber you need to get a four wheel alignment to find your nearest garage use this website Welcome to Align My Car

    Once you get the aligned & measurements made on a hunter machine you will have a true picture.If the rear camber is out look at this thread http://hondakarma.com/threads/107/

    You can go aftermarket of Honda solution to resolve the positive camber.

    if you camber was affected then your rear tyre would have been worn unevenly which will cause the car to pull ,tug and even tramline.The only solution is to replace the tyres once the camber is fixed.

    Wheel balancing with new weights,preferably all the same tyre makes on the same axle.

    Front suspension check compliance bushes, drop link , top arm joint, and ARB bushes.

    let us know how you get along.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sunday 23rd Feb, 2014
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  5. dom277 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Thanks Ichiban but I have had the 4 wheel laser alignment done recently and it was only out by 0.2 degrees on the front, and cambers were fine. The toe adjustment hasn't made any difference. All bushes and joints were checked by different garages and none of them could find anything worn or bent... so I don't know what else to do...
     
  6. dom277 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    p.s. I also have had 2 Accords previously, and while knowing how sensitive they are (I always get my tyres balanced on a Hunter gsp 9700 ), I've not had this type of problem on my 2 previous Accords. They were rock solid. If they pulled, it was only one way, when alignment was out . My CTDi pulls both ways, it might go left right left right left right in the space of 1 or 2 seconds during acceleration or braking.
     
  7. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    if you already had the car examined and there is nothing out of the ordinary then you may have a worn rack!I have never heard of it or seen on personally and can't think of it failing.

    When you rotate the wheels can using the palm of hands feel the tyres to sense the wear they need to be smooth without any ripples.

    What alloy wheel do you have and do you know how much weight is used per wheel?

    Anything over 50 grams per wheel you may have bad alloy wheel, but sometime the wheel is not aligned on the balancer hub which give poor balancing results.

    try the 50 psi method and rebalance
     
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  8. dom277 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Regarding wheel balancing, I've got the standard factory 15 inch alloys, and I think they must be fine cos they don't give any vibrations or judder at a constant cruising speed in town or on motorways. It's only under acceleration or braking that my problem happens. And it's made worse with rough surfaces, which pulls the steering all over the place like mad!

    Yeah I may have to get the rack checked! Just checking it is a big job though, right?
     
  9. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    You can't fit 15 inch wheel on 300MM front brake dics bud due to caliper hitting, do you mean 16 inch wheel? does it feel like a torque steer ?
     
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  10. dom277 Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Sorry yep 16 inch, I got mixed up with my old 6th Generation which was on 15 inch.

    It's more than just torque steer, cos it happens under braking sometimes too. But even if there is some torque steer in the mix too, it is an overdose. Like it's exaggerated and there is no damping going on at all between the road and the steering wheel, if you kinda know what I mean.

    My previous Accords both had very direct steering, but they were settled and planted. This one skits all over the place...
     
  11. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    No issues on the alloy wheel :Wink:You checked out the driveshafts what mileage you got on your car now, your diesel doesn't have a crazy remap does it?

    80-90k miles on a stock diesel the inner drivesaft bearing will show signs of wear.
     
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  12. tommyturbo Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    tommy scotland
    26
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    sounds kind of similar to mine,also seems to be steering rack issues.when reversing out my drive near full lock when turning i get the steering wheel kicking back and forth when sitting at an uneven bit of ground,when car has stopped.also pulls left to right on a straight road,alignment all done and all bushes checked,will try a second hand rack and maybe get old rack refurbed when off.
     
  13. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    I wish both of you were closer to me I would like to have seen this for myself to see what is the root cause.
     
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  14. tommyturbo Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    tommy scotland
    26
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    well if it turns out to not be the steering rack i will let you's know,i know on my old ATR that the pump packed in one day and probably thats what caused the rack to wear out eventually,obviously don't know the full history of my current car so don't know what may have happened in the past.

    on a side not,do you know if all 7th Generation Accords share the same rack or does it need to be of the diesel only.
     
  15. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    I think the diesel and petrol racks are different and rack and piñon ratios are different. I will look it up bud.
     
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  16. Primarycare Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Primary c Northampton
    1,096
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    It is an odd one this...



    I had an A6 tdi once which had a duf rack, that was all over the shop. Had it replaced with a recon £275 from GSF £200 to fit but in the end although the rack was worn (also leaking) it turned out to be CV joint nsf that was the problem with handling, changed that and was back to norm.

    This sounds more confusing though, wish I could help guys ... sorry but good luck with getting this sorted and if you get to the bottom of this I would be very interested to know what the culprit was.

    All the best
     
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  17. tommyturbo Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    tommy scotland
    26
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    did you find out about the racks,i had a look but the petrols all share the same part number,and diesels are different,even saloon to tourer is different,would they still physically fit,just ratio's out,or is it unadvisable.
     
  18. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Prefacelift petrol and diesel racks have the same overall steering ratio of 14.57. You may want to check the rack design as they can be different.