Engine & Gearbox Struggle to get into Gear (Clutch/CMC/CSC Replaced)

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by K24 CL9 GUY, Thursday 11th Dec, 2014.

  1. K24 CL9 GUY Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Guy Gloucester
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    Hi,

    Can anyone please help me!

    I had a strange creaking coming from the the engine/clutch pedal and felt horrible aswel as was difficult to select gears a few months ago so took it to a well recommended garage who deal with alot of modified/performance cars and they recommended I replaced the clutch as had cover 80,000 and maybe the master and slave cylinder's.
    As was doing all this thought would get a lightweight flywheel put in at the same time. So after spending a grand on buying competition clutch and flywheel aswel as master and slave cylinder's and having it all fitted it didn't really feel much better when thought would slide into gear with ease now.
    I took it back to them and the guy there said when test drove it was fine so thought was just me and put up with it.
    Now a few months have passed and has got colder I can hardly select 1st at all without alot of force with the clutch pedal flat to the floor and have noticed when doing this it actually pulls forward slightly and showed my friend who is an engineer and he said that the clutch obviously isn't fully disengaging.
    Does anyone have any suggestions or solutions for me?
    From what my friend said guessing hasn't been fitted quite right possibly and/or may need to have the selector replaced but thought the garage would have suggested that before everything else if they thought could be the reason for the problems?
    Please help as am really woried going to end up replacing the whole gearbox.
    Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

    Many thanks,

    Guy.
     
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  2. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    I'd start by looking at the actual clutch pedal assembly itself, I had a similar problem whereby the clutch was only half disengaging as the assembly had corroded/cracked meaning the rod on the cylinder wouldn't fully retract.

    Is this a cerametallic clutch or an organic? The cerametallic racing style clutches are very stiff in general, more akin to an on/off switch than the linear travel on an organic clutch. I went for an uprated organic clutch for this reason. You still shouldn't be struggling to get it in and out of gear, though I've seen Competition Clutches fail early quite a few times for the yanks (more popular over there).

    Given what you said regarding the selector pulling forward, it sounds like the assembly isn't secured properly but I wouldn't be convinced that's the underlying issue, the linkage is a very simple system, it normally either works or it does. A very simple test is whether you can select gears properly with the engine off, if that's fine, then it's not the linkage - if there is a problem there, I'd say the next port of call would be to disconnect the linkage from the shift mechanism on the gearbox (picture below) and see if you can freely select gears there, if you can't, the problem is the gearbox, if you can, the problem is the selector assembly or linkage.

    hk-transmission_overhaul-05.

    If the selector was fine with the engine off, then we're back to looking at the clutch, and I would start with the assembly given the new CMC/CSC.

    Another thing that wouldn't harm is overhauling the fluid on the transmission (MTF3), assuming that hasn't been done in the past 80k.
     
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  3. K24 CL9 GUY Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Guy Gloucester
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    Wow fair play you know your stuff and thanks for the huge amount of info and options to try to diagnose. Will show this to one of my mechanic friends to help me explore all these options before taking back to the garage and spending loads more money with no success. I had a full service done at same time as replacing clutch etc so had gearbox oil replaced then.
    As for the type of clutch I asked HondR which to go for as Maz there owned a highly tuned CL9 and recommended the set up I have which I think was a stage 2 - will check tomorrow and let you know.
    Thanks for your help will talk soon :Smile:
     
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  4. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    I'm still quite the novice mate, I've just been working on a massive transmission overhaul on my car lately :Smile:

    Yeah I know Maz's old car well, it's been owned for the past few years by @accordk24. The guys at Hond-R know their stuff, I'm just not keen on Competition Clutches as I've read too much bad feedback on them over time.

    Keep us posted :Thumbup:
     
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  5. K24 CL9 GUY Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Guy Gloucester
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    Think these are what I went for from HondR but did me a competition clutch and flywheel package similar and swear Maz said to go for the stage 2 as had one in his :Smile:
    Screenshot_2014-12-12-19-37-20. Screenshot_2014-12-12-19-37-03.
     
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  6. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    That looks pretty expensive considering the brands used, I'm quite surprised.
     
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  7. K24 CL9 GUY Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Guy Gloucester
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    Hi from selecting gears with the engine off it slides into gear with ease like it should without foot on the clutch and with clutch down even easier.
    So, from your diagnostics it's the mechanism itself such as the pedal and/or master n slave cylinder's.
    When buying the master and slave cylinder's struggled to find the ones for my car with extensive searching on Google and eBay and had to just get blueprint ones which I guess are not the best quality so don't know if know anywhere can get some high performance ones? Also what else should be replaced at the same time?
    As appears not going to have to replace gear box or selector now as works fine with engine off am willing to spend a few hundred on everything else to make sure in perfect working order so suggestions of a list of parts to replace, where to get them from and cost would be much appreciated.
    Hope you can help and thanks for the easy diagnosis you sent me
     
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  8. K24 CL9 GUY Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Guy Gloucester
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    Anyone have any suggestions on this???
     
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  9. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    Was the clutch fluid bled properly?

    If you could pop up to Birmingham sometime could have a quick look at this for you.

    Although I'm quite busy at mo with own projects and DIY in the house
     
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  10. K24 CL9 GUY Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Guy Gloucester
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    That would be sweet if could mate Birmingham only like hour from Gloucester so if you let me know when you are free I'm there.
    Thanks alot :Smile:
     
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  11. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    If it goes into gears fine with the engine off, the gear select mechanism and the assembly are both sound, and it's also less likely you have any gearbox problems - though of course that might only show under load.

    I think the next point of call is to quickly check the pedal assembly itself to make sure it's retracing the cylinder rod correctly, you can easily visually inspect it, look at my link above from my '03 to see what a dead assembly looks like - it has been documented on a few early 7th Gens.

    If that all pans out, then it's onto the clutch.

    Blueprint ones actually aren't that bad, their parts can be very hit and miss but I know quite a few CL9 owners who have used their CMC/CSC without any issues. I'm actually not aware of any performance options out there, it's something I've never looked into myself, most people use stock or Blueprint parts.

    I very much doubt you have gearbox problems, they're pretty rare on the CL9, I think it's more likely the clutch side of things which is the issue. @SpeedyGee knows more about it than I do - in terms of diagnosis in general getting to his gaff would mean everything can be looked at easily at once :Smile:

    The simplest explanation is within the CMC/CSC and fluid pressure side of things, though what you describe could also be the clutch pressure plate.
     
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  12. K24 CL9 GUY Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Guy Gloucester
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    Thanks for your help guy's much appreciated.

    Let me know when you are free for me to pop up to you then SpeedyGee so can have a look for me and will give you some money for your time.

    Thanks again,

    Guy.
     
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  13. K24 CL9 GUY Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Guy Gloucester
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    Just read your review about the clutch assembly and that part you show in the pic of the whole assembly is what I thought was the problem myself in the first place as when was making the creaking noise I used to spray some lubricant on the mechanism and would stop the noise temporarily but when would move clutch by hand to work the lube in looked like had movement/play in it but when took it to the experts just said to replace clutch so maybe need to replace clutch assembly instead? Trip to SpeedyGee's gaff desperately required for proper diagnostics so can resolve the issue and move on to getting the ECU and Flashpro sorted :Smile:
     
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  14. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    I'll drop you a PM Guy to arrange coming over.
     
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  15. K24 CL9 GUY Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Guy Gloucester
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    Have been looking on ebay and Google to see if can buy a new clutch assembly and came across this....
    Seems to be a common fault, must try to see if is the cause of my issue if manage to take a lunch break tomorrow as her symptoms sound exactly the same.... DeviateDefiant just realised from reading her description that with engine off could select all gears fine other than 5th :-o
    - - - Updated - - -
    Anyone know where to buy a new clutch assembly as can't seem to find any on ebay or Google???
     
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  16. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    Aye as I say, it's quite a common problem - the Acura TSX is also affected by it. The part number you need is 46910-SEA-E41 for the complete assembly, the list price is £95 but our club dealer Holdcroft will come out cheaper with our discount and free shipping. I personally had mine welded and strengthened instead of replacing it, cost me £20 :Laughing:

    Was it literally just 5th?
     
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  17. K24 CL9 GUY Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Guy Gloucester
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    • Cool thanks mate will have to have a look :Smile:

    • Sweet, we have a welder at work maybe I should ask him to have a look to see if can do the same for me.
    • Yeah just 5th which is weird? 1-4 and 6th completely fine but 5th is like isn't even there when engine is off? This Kay on that type accord thing I posted said the same and ended up being the clutch assembly as you said so will try take a look on my lunch break today - if get one that is :-/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Wednesday 17th Dec, 2014
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  18. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    Guy how are you "quoting" @DeviateDefiant's posts ? It's hard to tell what you have quoted and what you have typed yourself LOL

    I'll edit your post to make it more clear.

    It isn't all too difficult to remove the pedal assembly to inspect it. I took mine out a while ago :-

    20130720_183412.
     
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  19. K24 CL9 GUY Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Guy Gloucester
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    Usually like this mate but doesn't always give me the option to do it this way on my damb phone :-/
    Nice clutch assembly there, want to sell it lol
     
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  20. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    No I think I need that ! :Grin:
     
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