Engine & Gearbox Timing Chain Snapped?

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by Chrispy, Friday 5th Jul, 2013.

  1. Chrispy Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Chris Nottinghamshire
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    Afternoon All,

    I recently bought a 2004 Honda Accord 2.2 I-CTDI with good service history,

    Now when bought it, it did sound a little rough but drove very well and was silent once sat inside,

    Now I noticed the serpentine was of old revision and the car was due a service so I thought I'd kill two birds with one stone, I had the car serviced (0w30 only) and the serpentine belt replaced, (at my local)

    Straight away I had a heavy oil leak, Around the crankshaft pulley, I can only imagine the new belt has released the tension from the previous longer belt and has made a nice gap in the gasket/seal for the oil to ooze out,

    So I'm driving home from the service (30 miles ish) and my car begins to jerk under heavy acceleration so I took it back to the garage it was serviced the following morning and requested for a genuine Bosch fuel filter, which they replaced.

    So I'm driving home back into Chesterfield (about half way into my commute home) and my car completely died, I lost all power, (Four ways first things first) I pushed in the clutch and panicked like a little girl, I dumped the clutch in 4th (roughly @ 50mph) and the car was rolling but I still had no power, coincidently I approached a lay-by and decided to dump it in there and investigate further, I checked my fluids and all was good, having no tools I had to call out the AA, 45 minutes later, it boiled down to a possible air leak, but I thought once primed the fuel system would of bled itself, I had fuel getting in the fuel pump but none out, so at that point all fingers were pointing at the fuel pump. So I had her towed home wondering what on earth just happened.

    This afternoon after work (luckily had another means of getting to work) removed the fuel pump and decided to see if my engine was still turning like it should to operate the fuel pump, I manually twisted the fuel pump and to my horror discovered fuel spurting out where it should so mechanically it looked fine, I got into the car turned her over and nothing was moving internally (with the helpful eyes of my old man), straight away I thought timing chain,

    Could it be the timing chain? I thought I would of heard a bit of a racket when I dumped the clutch after I lost the power? with rods bending and what not, or did I get lucky with the timing of the engine?

    I did attempt to roll is and engage the clutch but still nothing turning, I'm sure the fuel pump operated from one of the cam shafts?

    Anyway I'm calling Honda tomorrow to see if they can help at all, I actually already have it booked to check a cracked manifold,

    Having only owned the car two weeks purchased from a friend who has emigrated abroad who I known for 6 year and in that he owned the car and it never skipped a beat, did I purchase a time bomb?

    Any ideas or opinions are appreciated

    Cheers,

    Chris.
     
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  2. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
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    Whack the valve cover off and have a look at the timing chain. It would only take you about 10 minutes and a 10mm socket + 10mm spanner to get access and check the timing chain: http://hondakarma.com/threads/6105/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sunday 23rd Feb, 2014
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  3. Chrispy Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Chris Nottinghamshire
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    Thanks for the reply arcticfire,

    valve cover being the engine head? doing a bit of digging there is an inspection cover but might have to remove the wheel to get a look at it,

    Chris.
     
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  4. Topper Harley Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Cam cover not so easy on I-CTDI. Injectors need to be removed.
     
  5. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
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    Ah I didn't know that, sorry.
     
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  6. Chrispy Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Chris Nottinghamshire
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    No worries, yeah I decided to dump it with Honda Mansfield, £60 to move it 5 miles paaah!, there going to diagnose the fault (for £45 which I though was very reasonable) so we'll take it from there, I'll keep you all updated,

    Funnily enough I had it booked in there for the 27th this month due to the known cracked manifold issue,

    What a can of worms...

    I hope Honda UK help me out, my service history is great up until 55K miles with Honda but has nothing but the private garage @ 91k which it sits at now....absolutely gutted,

    Fingers crossed eh....
     
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  7. RobB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. You're going to get no help from HUK on a nine year old car.
     
  8. Andrew Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    I was offered 50% reduction on an engine on a 7 year old car so you may get lucky....

    Out of interest, whats the symptoms for the cracked diesel manifold? i thought mine had gone due to the smell in the cabin etc, turned out to be a leaky injector which i replaced the seals and gained a shed load more power :Smile:
     
  9. Chrispy Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Chris Nottinghamshire
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    RobB, I hope they help, don't ask don't get eh :Wink: I've seen some get at least money towards it, due to the fact the chain(s) are known for premature wear, even Honda admittedly stated over the phone the oil pump chains are known defective, which i thought was a bit ripe coming from Honda UK themselves, I was speaking with the service manager at the Honda garage and although he couldn't guarantee anything its typical of Honda UK to help out as much as they can given the circumstances.

    The symptoms for the cracked manifold, is a strong smell in the cabin at start up, a hissing sound (escaping gases) and smoky exhaust fumes joint with the lack of power, due to being over fuelled as a result of incorrect readings from sensors, you might just have one or all of these symptoms it really varies, I've even seen smoke escaping from the manifold under high revs at a standstill, fortunately I was only experiencing a nice strong smell of fumes in the cabin when at a standstill at start up, the fact its a health and safety issue usually warrants a replacement, I can't imagine Honda would like to be held responsible for accidents due drowsiness / bad headaches etc, its unlikely but you never know.

    To be honest it you have the air con on you can't smell anything, its only when the air intake for the cabin is from outside, rather than being recirculated or conditioned, when moving I could never smell it but with a crack It would only get worse given the great British weather,

    From what I've read, the old/original manifolds are made from a two part cast which is welded, the weld is usually what gives in first, but as most others have found, once the car is up to temperature metal expands and most of the time will self seal itself, which is why most of the time performance issues are put down to a misinformed 'cold engine' which is true to an extent but isn't accurate given these circumstances.

    The new manifold is a one piece cast with much better gaskets, although you will have to have the issue confirmed by Honda before Honda UK will even consider a free replacement, but don't ask don't get, you get pick them up on that well known auction website for £380 as a last resort (directly from Honda, well redistributed from Honda)

    If my chain has gone I'm sure the injectors will be replaced so they'll spot it then if its leaky :Smile:

    Fingers crossed for Monday, in the meantime roll on the BBQ :OTT:
     
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  10. RobB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Don't get me wrong mate, I hope they do help you. I just doubt it due to age, all chains will need replacing with age, thus why they stopped the warranty at 7 years. Ditto with the manifold.
    But good luck.
     
  11. Chrispy Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Chris Nottinghamshire
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    We'll see tomorrow, I don't really want to move it from the Honda garage until its sorted, anything under a grand I'm ok with, but anything over that and I'm in trouble, but I have a local who will do it for me perhaps a lot cheaper but no guarantees for a good job, it all depends on what Honda UK do now, wish me luck :Smile:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sunday 7th Jul, 2013
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  12. RobB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Chris I know it's really annoying but just watch your language on the forum.
    Good luck tomorrow.
     
  13. Chrispy Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Chris Nottinghamshire
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    Sorry :Whistle:

    Chris.
     
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  14. RobB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    No probs mate.
     
  15. Chrispy Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Chris Nottinghamshire
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    Well its official, my chain had snapped, wasn't expecting but knew it deep down in the back of my mind, they had the cause down to low oil pressure, with that stated they couldn't confirm if the oil pump chain had snapped, (as it was a quick inspection at the cost of £45) which I suspect did, then the timing chain after, I have raised a case with Honda UK, and were really sympathetic, cost of work in excess of £3200 as sump was cracked (which explains the leak) close to the crankshaft pulley, so I wasn't that far off, and replacement injectors new chains, and that if I got lucky with no damaged valves etc looking for a replacement low mileage engine, although my engine is the N22A1 I've been told by the garage the N22A2 will fit, however will require the engine sump from the N22A1, interesting, still weighing up my options its really down to Honda UK really, so mileage @ 91k miles and its been serviced 7 times with an oil change on top of that, it can't get any worse so I'm trying to think positively, wish me luck lads!
     
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  16. Andrew Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Hi Chris,


    Sorry to hear about the timing chain, What was the outcome with the cracked manifold?

    P.s Honda UK quoted me £15k for a N22A2 2 years back, i went to an "Ebay" garage and had a new crank / oil pump with 6 months warranty for £2100, im pretty sure they are a fair but cheaper now still (Car still going strong 30k later)

    Andrew
     
  17. AccordCU2 Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Good luck Chris, hope you get it sorted with minimal cost to you.
     
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  18. Chrispy Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Chris Nottinghamshire
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    Although they said they would have a look at the manifold, I feel their attitude has understandably changed to getting the engine replaced as a priority before sorting out the niggles, however I will be enquiring about it tomorrow, along with the costs of replacing the engine and servicing it while its there (well part servicing being that the filters are more or less new, although wouldn't want to contaminate the fresh oil), I will be keeping the old engine to and working on it to salvage what I can to resell to recoup some of the expense, I will also be chasing Honda UK to see if there's been any update with my case, time is of the essence, If I can prove I have an engine on the way I should be eligible for a courtesy car, I'm wasting holidays at the moment due to having no means of getting to work, what a farce! Also tried to recoup some money from the gentleman I bought it off, being that I've only owned the car 3 weeks or so now, don't ask don't get eh, fingers crossed it will all be done in a couple of week, I'll try and get some pictures of the engine to share with you all, first Honda vehicle I've ever purchased, will be never forgotten hehe, can only laugh about it now, the worst is over, thank god it didn't result in accident or when I supposed to be on holiday starting this Friday, lucky but unlucky :Blink:

    I'll let you know the outcome but don't expect much for a few days while it gets sorted,

    Cheers guys!

    Chris.
     
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  19. Chrispy Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Chris Nottinghamshire
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    Hi all, just a quick update, Honda were unable to provide any support, I found a reconditioned engine for £1500 (N22A1) but Honda want 14 Hours labour maximum (£990 + VAT) and then there's the cost if an injector breaks, fluids, filters, gaskets, etc, how much do you reckon I'll get for it as it is with it being a non-runner?

    I have found a local engine rebuilding garage and will be enquiring with them as I'm sure it will be cheaper, they also provide a replacement engine service, I'll keep you updated on the costs, I really want to keep this car! :/

    Chris.
     
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  20. Andrew Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Hi Chris,

    Good price for an N22A1 as i said above pretty much any garage i called offered me a rebuild or reconditioned engine no matter what was required between £2100 - £2500 that was 2 years ago

    Andrew