Suspension, Steering and Brakes VSA Light on but no DTC's stored

Discussion in '7th Generation (2003-2008) [Acura TSX]' started by SpeedyGee, Monday 4th Jun, 2012.

  1. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    I've got an LPG converted Accord 2.4 Exec 2004.

    I recently had a 10 mile an hour front end shunt. So insurance company took the the car away to the repairers put a new bumper on it and what not.

    So the car gets dropped off by a tow truck, I look round the car all looks good, sign the two truck drivers sheet and he leaves.

    I jump in the car a take it for drive, immediately the amber warning triangle pops up and then about 100 meters down the line the VSA light comes.

    Never had the issue ever before, not even after the crash.

    So I call the repairers, they say they'll take it away to check. So a few days later they pick it up and keep it a couple of days.

    I get it back the VSA issue is still there. The accident repair centre say their own auto electricians checked it over and couldn't find a fault, so they sent it Colliers Honda.

    From the receipt they gave me from CH which totalled about £40, it looks like CH only spent about half an hour on the car. This is what they concluded :-

    "ABS WARNING LIGHT ON CHECKED WITH HDS NO DTC'S STORE BUT VSA LIGHT ON DAS AS NO DTCs STORED & CAR HAS GAS CONVERSION WHICH IN TURN PUTS THIS WARNING LIG POSS FAULT DUE TO GAS CONVERSION INSTALLATION"

    The LPG conversion was done back in 2008 using a top notch BRC LPG system and is running real sweet. As someone who has done many LPG conversions (although not this one on my own Accord as I bought it like this), I say what Collier's concluded is total bull crap.

    So now accident repair people are saying its not their fault I'm left with a VSA issue to sort out.

    Can anybody give me any pointers in diagnosing this issue ? Are there any commonly failing components on the VSA system ?
     
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  2. Beefy Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    there is troubleshooting to follow with situations like this but it seams the accident repair company wouldn't pay the honda dealer to spend any more time on the car. the VSA modulator is a very delicate peice of equiptment so there is the possibility you need a new one. how bad was the damage to the front? the earth for the VSA is on the front pannel, could well have been damaged. i am affraid you may have to foot the bill but you need to get a honda garage to carry out the appropriate diagnosis and insist it is done propperly. its not a 5 min job i am affraid, especialy if there are not dtd's stored!
     
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  3. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    Thanks for the reply Beefy.

    I can't see the insurance company coughing up at all unless a Honda Dealer puts in writing that they think damage was part of accident.

    I really can't afford to pay Honda to fix this and then find that I can't recoup the costs from the insurance company.

    I'm a perfectly competent mechanic myself, so if there's any tests that I can do I am willing to try to diagnose the issue myself. I have checked the the earth connection already and it is good.

    So from what I've gathered, the components of the VSA system are VSA module, VSA Switch, 4 x Wheel Speed Sensors, Yaw Sensor, Steering Wheel Angle sensor.

    If I can test all the attached sensors and eliminate those then that would point to a suspect VSA module.

    If someone can provide me with a wiring diagram for the VSA system I can do the basic checks.
     
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  4. RobB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Personally I would put in writing to the insurance company the fact that the light wasn't on before the accident and now it is.
    You're probably going to have a battle with them, but you wouldn't accept the car back if the lights didn't work. I would also stress to them the safety implications of returning the car in this condition.
     
  5. Doc Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    I would take it up with the insurance company, preferably in writing.

    The repair company has acknowledge the fault and tried to fix it so confirming it to be there at point of repair, which clearly they haven't done properly otherwise they would have dealt with the issue before returning it. They just don't want to incur the cost as it wasn't in the original quote of work to be done.

    I would point out to the insurance company your experience in fitting LPG conversions, the length of time the device has been fitted, the trouble free installation up to the point of the accident, and the obvious bull crap fob off by Colliers, explain why it's bull stating in technical terms the LPG conversion operation and it's separation to the VSA module, so they can't tell you you don't know what you're talking about. If you state technical knowledge it will give them no points to argue. If they can't argue they should only say yes.

    Tell them you want a proper investigation with a reputable dealer to provide a satisfactory report and the repairs completed under the insurance claim.

    If you don't get answer you want don't be afraid to raise a complaint. They usually behave more reasonably at that stage because the FSA review their complaints and can impose fines for poor practice. ;-)
     
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  6. alloy36 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Is the ABS light on as well?

    I've read a lot around these issues and my understanding is that this is normally an indicator of the VSA module being damaged rather than any other associated sensors.

    Over on TA there was a belief that this sort of symptom after work being carried out under bonnet is connon due to accidentally knocking the VSA module. Sorry no hard facts or evidence to back this up.

    I've read up a lot on the VSA system and find it hard to believe that lpg installation has anything to do with it.

    However, no DTCs indicate a loose connection at fault as there is a DTC for the VSA module.

    I would start by checking the VSA fuse under bonnet.

    Let us know how you get on. Good luck mate
     
  7. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Those sort of gremlins are only associated with the diesels petrol cars have a more robust Japanese VSA modulator which is immune to these ghost issues. So not applicable to speedy condition.

    Speedy have a look at this article I would put the money on the earthing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Friday 21st Mar, 2014
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  8. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    Thanks for all the replies guys.

    RobB, Doc, Insurance company are saying that they have done what the could, towed the car away back to their placed, checked it themselves, taken it to Colliers Honda, who said that there is no issue (!!), and that the fault is down to the LPG system.

    To which I replied that CH didn't say that there wasn't a fault, they only said there were no DTC's stored. And that they didn't say that gas WAS at fault, they only said that Gas system plugs into ECM which is where the fault is picked and that it is POSSIBLY the gas system at fault.

    I have read that if engine misfires are detected that the VSA system would disable itself. So in theory if the Gas system had an issue say one bad injector causing a misfire this could cause the VSA module to disable itself and cause the dash light to come on.

    But the Gas system seems to be fully in tune, I've checked the fuel trims and they look good. I took the car for a spirited drive yesterday and was pulling like a train all through the rev range on gas !

    Having said that a yearly gas service is nearly due soon anyway, so I'll get that done and see if that makes any difference.

    The Insurance company also stated that they are willing to pay for a fix as long as a Honda Dealer puts in writing that the cause was the accident.

    No ABS light, just the warning triangle and VSA light is on. Warning triangle stays on and the VSA light pops up after driving about 100 meters or so.

    What happens if the VSA module is just dead, does the ECM have a DTC for this ?

    I've literally tested all the fuses I could see. If I had a wiring diagram I could test that there is power getting to VSA module.

    Thanks for the link I've checked/cleaned battery earth and VSA earth. I'll check out the others.
     
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  9. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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  10. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

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    Speedy get all of the wheel sensors recalibrated via HDS it could also rule out sensor \configuration issue.
     
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  11. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

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    I will dig out the VSA wiring diagram for you I will have it.As for the reason why the VSA light is lit there will be a reason given when you interrogate it within the ABS|VSA section in HDS.
     
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  12. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    I was wondering if those HDS units off ebay are any good ?

    Anyone tried one out ?
     
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  13. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Yup I have they are lethal in the wrong hands. Since you know what your doing it should be a piece of cake.

    Have a look at this thread http://hondakarma.com/threads/561/

    do not play with the key coding , immboliser or cmupdate menu you will brick your ECU. Chinese are good cloners have done a good job, but cloning has its limitations down to the chip.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sunday 23rd Feb, 2014