General Which? Reliability survey

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by FirstHonda, Monday 14th Dec, 2015.

  1. FirstHonda Premium Member Club Supporter

    A colleague gave me a copy of the Which? reliability survey today. Quite interesting - even though it is 'last' years (I guess a new one will be out in the Spring).

    Broadly, Which? measure reliability and overall satisfaction separately, as well as splitting cars up to three years old and cars over three years old. They also categorise 'faults' into different categories depending on how serious they are.

    So, the top line - and some interesting comments are:

    - Honda is the most reliable manufacturer, but comes second overall as a brand to Lexus due to Lexus having a higher satisfaction score.
    - BMW comes third, even though reliability "...isn't the best" due to customer satisfaction. Weird, as I wouldn't be satisfied with an unrealible car, but still, it takes all sorts!
    - Audi comes fifth, but again reliability is cited as poor, "Audi only offers a three year 60k mile warranty, and reliability slumps soon after this point." No kidding!
    - VW comes tenth, with disappointing reliability again noted.

    Without going into all other brands, what is consistent is that Japanese brands have better reliability, but their overall scores are often lower than German brands with poor reliability as customers are so 'satisfied' with their purchase. WTF?!

    Anyway, JUST reliability for individual types is as follows (the survey breaks it down do you can see reliability and 'overall satisfaction' separately):

    -Supermini: the Jazz Hybrid comes second, with the normal Jazz third for cars up to 3 years (behind the Citroen C1!). Over 3 years, the Jazz is top.

    - Medium cars: the petrol Civic and the diesel Civic are mid-table only up to 3 years, but the diesel is sixth for over 3 years with the petrol tenth. Interesting...

    Large car: the 8th Generation Accord comes tenth up to 3 years, although the Insight comes third. Over 3 years the Accord comes just below mid-table, which is a surprise for me. Petrol and diesel weren't separated.

    SUV: the petrol 4th Generation CR-V comes top - by a distance. The diesel is well below half way (25th) with the comment, " (the diesel) is beset by high repair costs caused by problems with the exhaust and cooling system." Over 3 years the 3rd Generation CR-V comes second in petrol form and fifth as a diesel.

    MPV: the FR-V comes second for cars over 3 years, with surface rust noted as a minor issue.

    That was it for Honda - there was no mention of S2000, CR-Z or Legend, I assume to to a sample response too small to merit inclusion.

    Some interesting findings, and I thought worth sharing.
  2. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    Its a strange world isn't it the perception of reliability is questionable. One man reliable is ones Trash!
    FirstHonda likes this.
  3. FirstHonda Premium Member Club Supporter

    What is interesting is that the reliability numbers - including cost of repair, breakdowns and time off the road - is tangible. 'Satisfaction' is more about dealer service, how nice an owner feels it is to drive, interior quality etc. Perception and opinion, in fact.

    Looking at the data, it seems that there is either a lot of justification going on by owners of German brands (as their reliability is noted as poor based on the data) OR they really do value a 'high quality' interior and the 'driving experience' (and that is debatable based on what I've seen by VW and BMW, even though Audi do make a nice interior to be fair) more than actually being able to use their car for transport!

    I must be strange. I couldn't be satisfied with an unreliable product...
  4. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    These German car owners have to keep up the appearances with the Jones so its a sacrifice..

    I bet these to55ers listen to Elton :serenade:their cars from breaking down.

    FirstHonda likes this.
  5. Nels Moderator Staff Team

    Having spent such huge amounts on, shall we say trash, the owners of the German cars cannot dispute the reliability, but the can uphold the 'prestige brand image' by supporting the notion of 'satisfaction'.

    They are so used to toing the company line, even when it is completely wrong, that it's just a natural extension to do so for the car they drive. How could they criticise their beloved German junk when their boss drives one too! :Innocent: Now that would be just plain silly.:lol:
    FirstHonda likes this.
  6. FirstHonda Premium Member Club Supporter

    "But everybody tells us that our Mercedes/BMW/Audi/VW is just the BEST car EVER...and all our neighbours have them too, apart from those poor people that have to own a Ford/Honda/Toyota.

    ...I feel sorry for them, they just don't realise how much better their lives would be if they just drove a car like ours. Oh, I know it breaks down occasionally, but the dealer serves such lovely coffee and the repair costs are so reassuringly expensive that we just MUST have another one."

    ^^Britain today. Style and brand over substance. Sad. So, so sad. Not to mention deluded.

    Class can't be bought by owning a particular brand of car. But it doesn't stop the oiks from believing - REALLY believing - that it does.
    Nels, legend-ary and Ichiban like this.
  7. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    Absolutely correct Ed.
  8. vincemince Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    Garrydhu, exec and legend-ary like this.
  9. legend-ary Moderator Staff Team

    exec and vincemince like this.
  10. vincemince Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

  11. exec Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom London
    The 4th Generation CR-V Diesel has a bad score, are they that problematic?
    - - - Updated - - -
    I'm not sure if its the angle of this image, but look how huge the newer Accord looks to the old, it dwarfs it

  12. legend-ary Moderator Staff Team

    Ofcourse new cars have grown much more larger over the years. Accord was the smallest car Honda used to make in USA, now there are two models slotted below it (Civic and Jazz). new Jazz has probably got more space than older Civics while newer Civic's have got more space than older Accords.
    exec likes this.
  13. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    I guess reliability isn't the only measure of satisfaction with many people. Looking at the Which Reliability Survey 2015 it says that 91% of the respondents who had bought a car in the last 12 months purchased a new car, so I'm guessing that the majority of reliability issues would have been taken care off under warranty and not effected their pocket - and they probably got a courtesy car also. So reliability probably isn't such a deciding factor for them. Perhaps if all cars had to be 5 years and older then reliability issues would probably be a bigger issue and effect satisfaction. Perhaps they should also find out how much people have spent maintaining their cars or do they just do the basic servicing each year and rely on a garage to actually do it right?

    Of course reliability is also heavily dependent on the owner and how they drive and maintain their car. I would hesitate a guess that an Audi driver will tear the arse off their car more than a Honda driver and also be pretty clueless as to tell-tale signs that something may be wrong - waiting until something catastrophic happens before wondering why it won't start lol But on saying that I did push my 7th Generation Accord to the redline quite a lot and she sounded sweet right up until we sold her. I did maintain her well though.

    • I was satisfied with the reliability of my Accord, the comfort and the economy but I wasn't so satisfied with the performance. I wanted more but there wasn't anything available in the Honda lineup. So you could say I was only 3/4 satisfied.
    • The MPS6 satisfied my performance itch but the suspension reliability was terrible. The economy was good for what the car could produce and it was quite comfortable. So again, 3/4 satisfied.
    • The CR-V was not reliable but for an SUV in its class (i.e. not a 5.0 Range Rover) the performance was reasonable good but nothing to get excited about, comfort was excellent and economy quite good. So perhaps 3/5 satisfed. But important to note that after a year of fixing everything and with my maintenance it's been perfect - so that brings us to the driver of a car being partly responsible for reliability. It would now be 3/4 satisfaction.
    • The BMW has the performance (although I wouldn't mind more now lol), it's had flawless reliability, comfort is good (although not as good as the Accord and CR-V - but it's a sports setup) and the economy is good considering the performance. So you could say I'm 100% satisfied. At the moment. Yes, reliability should be perfect as it's a new car, but then there's plenty of new Hondas on here with problems, recalls etc which I've not suffered. It could be a totally different story in a few years though and I've got my trigger finger ready to shoot the Bavarian beast down the moment something does happen.

    Another point to note is the dealerships. Honda went above and beyond and Arnold Clark were fine (amazingly!). BMW was a bit of a disaster on my first visit although their service manager did contact me promptly and deal with it. I'll be interested to see how my next visit goes as I've upgraded the contract to include maintenance so things like tyres, brakes etc are covered. Let's see how well they honour it because I've almost gone through the current set and you could be looking at around £800-900 to replace.
    nsxer likes this.
  14. chunkymonkey Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Gary Lincs
    Hmmm surveys not sure they tell the whole truth to be honest although the Which does look pretty comprehensive. Other half has a Seat Leon diesel we bought it new and its been flawless for 5 years its been main dealer serviced and looked after. My CR-V is 8 years old and has had a couple of things that needed doing ie clutch but that can happen to any car that has done 96k but it too has been main dealer serviced and repaired from new indeed it still is, just serviced last week. Folks say their car is unreliable but how has it been maintained? I would like to bet that a fair few but not all have not been looked after by previous owners etc. Unfortunately cars cost money to run and people don't like parting with what's in their wallet!
  15. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    It's not just survey results @chunkymonkey, warranty claim figures also generally back up what the surveys say and the storey is generally always the same that the Japanese marques fair better than European ones on the reliability front.

    When I was working at RAC in the late 90's I was asked to collate breakdown stats and again those stats fell in line with what all the survey results were saying at the time. Needless to say Honda came out in top in those breakdown stats, for the percent membership Hondas had the least breakdowns and even those breakdowns were mostly down to dead batteries, lock outs or tyre punctures, not many actual mechanical/electrical failures.
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  16. chunkymonkey Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Gary Lincs
    Good point Speedy forgot about warranty claim stats and data from breakdown services.
  17. Garrydhu Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Ireland Billy Dor Carrigaline
    Go insight
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  18. Phil P Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Phil Kent

    Diesel: Problems with exhaust and cooling system. Any ideas? Presumably exhaust is DPF, but cooling?


  19. Nels Moderator Staff Team

    Have you been able to look into this @FirstHonda ?
  20. FirstHonda Premium Member Club Supporter

    There wasn't any extra detail in the survey, sorry.