General Wind noise normal at 65mph+ ?

Discussion in '7th Generation (2001-2005)' started by RogerH69, Monday 15th Sep, 2014.

  1. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    I was wondering if it's normal to start hearing wind noise at 65mph+ on the 2004 Civic Type-S ? It sounds a little loud to me, and checking doors, all seem to be closing properly and in alignment, and the seals seem fine (thought other than an obvious tear, anything else would look fine to me).

    Would it be worth it to replace the seals on the doors (the rubber seals on the door, not the clip on seals on the door frame) ?
     
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  2. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Years ago I did a trick on a Mazda MX-6. I put some black shoe polish on the door seals and closed them. This put a layout on the door frame of where there was decent contact and where there wasnt.

    I think you need to dig a bit deeper into finding it rather than splashing out on door seals at the moment unless something is obviously cracked.
     
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  3. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    Thanks for the tip. Agree about trying to find cause before getting new seals. Just wanted to know if this is a common issue on this car (i.e. a design fault that's there from day one), or simply possible wear and tear.
     
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  4. Chunkylover53 Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    The Civic is loud on motorways in general (when compared to an Accord). Just turn up the radio :Smile:
     
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  5. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    Do you think it's worth getting sound deadening installed in doors and under the carpeting ?
     
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  6. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    I don't think it's any louder than you'd expect for the type of car that is.

    I wonder if you could get a passenger to use a db noise meter (phone apps are available), move it around the car (whilst its being driven on the motorway) to determine noisiest areas of car. That could help you concentrate on sound deadening those areas.
     
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  7. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    I fitted sound deadening to my car last summer I believe it was. Spent around 300 quid just on material and stripped the interior down. If you do it, work from the rear of the car forwards. The boot causes the biggest issue due to being a large empty space above two wheels with plenty of room for sound to bounce around. You need to use dampening material followed by aucostic foam. The doors make a difference too, less road noise coming through them and they shut with a lovely solid thud. The extra dampening weight also helps prevent those supermarket trolley dings and the metal does not flex as easily.

    Doing the footwell helped kill a lot of road noise and vibration too.

    Is it worth it? Well, I dropped around 20db in sound. She is much quieter to drive, you hear less from outside etc. Is it worth the cost? To me it was, but its a hell of a lot of work. Doing the roof completely eliminates any sound of rain hitting the roof and keeps noise down within the car. The roof is the largest piece of sheet metal surrounding the cabin so it does flex.

    Just doing the doors and under the carpet will make a slight difference, but not a huge one IMO and experience. You would need to do the boot as thats an acoustic boom box. Also, you do not need to cover every single inch of metal with sound dampening. The sound dampening prevents panel movement, the insulation prevents low and high frequency waves entering the cabin. The insulation need to cover everything, but the sound dampening doesnt.

    These are the guys I used - really helpful. Drove to them to get the stuff

    Sound Deadening Shop - Car Van & 4x4 Automotive Sound Proofing
     
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  8. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
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    I'll be doing this on my Accord at some point, though they're quieter than most cars stock. Having been driving on bad roads for the past couple of months I'm yearning for more peace and quiet in the cabin. There's some great info there @Nighthawk.
     
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  9. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    Thanks @Nighthawk . Hope you don;t mind answering a couple of questions for me -

    I got quoted £360 by a car audio shop in Oxford for them to do the doors and as much of the floor as they could with 2 volume packs of the Silent Coat 2mm. Does this sound excessive to you ?
    Do you think I should rather just buy the materials and do it myself over the course of a few weekends ?
    Lastly, if I do just the sound deadening, can I go back later and do the foam if I don't notice enough improvement (I just want to try to get it to round about same sound levels as my old A4 was)?
     
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  10. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    I think thats part of the fun - also, I don't do ever take my car past a garage unless I absolutely have to. Part of the fun of your own car is that you can tinker around on it to your hearts content.

    For 360 quid, you could do most of it yourself. You do not have to cover every single inch of metal with dampening. Dampening just prevents the panels from resonating. I will put up a picture later of my drivers door. Tbh, I didnt take pictures in the sense of doing a DIY but it will show you what I mean. You do the inner sleeve with dampening and foam and the inner panel with just dampening. The foam prevents low and high frequencies, such as drones. The dampening alone will just give everything a nice solid thud feeling etc.

    For the amount of work to take everything apart, you really only want to do it once. Putting the dampening in first, to only take it apart again to put in the sound proofing foam is just mad in my opinion.

    Best of all, there is nothing quite like knowing that you did it all yourself. It is easily an entire weekend job to do half the car
     
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  11. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    That would be an interesting project to follow along. @RogerH69 if you go ahead please do take pictures and make a DIY Guide, that would be awesome :Wink:

    @Nighthawk when did you do yours ?
     
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  12. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    Thanks. Does the foam just get stuck on top of the deadening layer ? I was thinking of doing it in stages due to funds shortage - do most of car with deadening and then come back later with foam if I'm not happy with result. I suppose I could still do it in stages but deadening AND foam on each part of the car as I go along.

    If I go ahead with it (I don't really have a place where I can work on my car for extended periods, as I park on a very narrow road which sees a lot of bike, car and pedestrian traffic) I'll definitely post some pictures, but as a novice it may turn out to be a HNTDIY (How Not To DIY) guide :Wink:
     
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  13. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    We all started off as novices :Grin:
     
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  14. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Il have to pull out my receipt but Im pretty sure it was last summer as the temperature needs to be fairly half decent for the dampening to adhere to the metal properly. I think I have a picture of what I did with my drivers door but I will take a look through my pictures and see. I am sure it is in there somewhere in the middle of all the kids pics the missus keeps taking.

    I still have some deadedning sheets and foam in the garage, I will take a picture and show you.

    @RogerH69, as you have mentioned, I would do it one stage at a time which is what I did. Boot first, all done, then one door, all done, next one etc. Do one door nicely, then see how it sounds and feels when you close and open it compared to a door which has not been treated. Briefly, the way its done is this.

    Strip the door (in this example) down to expose the inner and outer skins (panels). The outer skin is obviously the one exposed to the outside world so you clean the inside of the outer skin with methylated spirits to remove as much crap as you can. Oil from the electric windows, any muck dripped down when its rained before it hits the drain holes etc etc. Once that has dryed off, get a metal ruler and a SHARP stanley knife, the sheets blunt the blades really quickly as you are cutting through a foil like top layer and butemen material. (Its not butemen, but its that type of thing, best way I could explain it), roughly measure out what you need, remove the backing and stick it on, roll it flat with a small roller or rounded piece of wood (which is what I used). For example, I think I covered around 50% of the outer skin with sound dampening. Door closes with a thud, not a ting. Make sure the dampening is on there properly, it is only effective when it is attached properly onto the metal (sound obvious but its why you have to press it in to make sure its seated properly). The foam, from that company anyway, has a really sticky backing. This, you have to cover every bit of metal. So, you then put the foam directly over the dampening on the inside of the outer skin of the door covering every single bit as best as you can. The foam I think was 10 or 12mm thick but there is more than enough room.

    Here is the sound deadening I used - 40 sheets, needed two packs
    Silent Coat 2mm Mat Volume Pack – Sound Deadening Shop

    This is the type of foam I used, but I bought it as 4 or 5 big individual sheets, not as a pack
    Silent Coat Noise Isolator 10 Bulk Pack – Sound Deadening Shop

    That foam is not really compressible, moves by a few mm only. Closed cell I think its called, so its water proof/resistant.

    You can also use Acoustic foam to line the inside of your door card
    Silent Coat Noise Isolator 10 Bulk Pack – Sound Deadening Shop

    This is very flexible and does the same thing as the above foam. You don't really need both was what was told to me by the company. One of the other but you could if you really wanted to go mad on it.

    MLV is what you use on the floor - Mass loaded vinyl.
    Again, they don't have what I had, I had a silent coat one

    MLV Mass Loaded Vinyl – Sound Deadening Shop

    Then put some more dampening on the inside skin of the door (that your door trim attaches to). Again, no need to drown it, but cover any holes not necessary to prevent any air coming through, remember, you still have drain holes in the bottom of the door that will let a certain amount of noise through as you drive. A good test is to put dampening on, give it a nice tap with your finger, fairly hardish, if it tings, you want more, if it thuds, your good.

    I did my boot as well, I will see if I can take the side panel off the boot and show how I helped to dampen alot of the noise coming through.

    I really should have done a DIY but that wasnt in my mind when I did it.

    That company though are excellent, they really are, they will give you loads of advice and are based in Oxford. Oh, my suggestion would be to use Silent Coat and not Dynamat. Silent Coat actually surpasses Dynamat on tests and you pay more for Dynamat due to its name and reputation (used in a lot of american-repair-your-crappy-old-rusty-120yr-old-car back to showroom condition).

    Another awesome side effect I found later - doing your doors turn them into one big bass box, so your speakers sound soo much better
    - - - Updated - - -
    You can get a starter pack to just test it out if you like, if you like it great, if not, then you havent put a huge expense into it. I just threw caution to the wind personally, I enjoyed doing it, a lot of work, the carpet in the accord is a real pain to take up. As with your brakes Roger, if you do decide and you want a hand, we can make a plan.
     
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  15. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    Nice write up @Nighthawk

    As you suggested, I think what I'll do (to get the 'hang of it') is to do the boot first so I know what to expect, how it sticks on, etc. before I need to get inside doors and under floor carpeting. Besides the floor of the boot, the rear wheel arches and the cavity for the spare tyre, is there any other area I should do in the boot (i.e. do I need to do the rear of the car under the bootlid, sides of boot etc.) ? Any idea of how much I should deadening and foam I should buy for the boot only ?

    Agree about using Silent Coat as opposed to Dynamat. Research I have done indicates that as you said, it actually performs better than Dynamat and is cheaper.

    Thanks for the offer of assistance. I'm gonna have a bash at the 'easy' parts myself and see how I get on.
     
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  16. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Ahh, found em.

    These pics were taken cause I was showing a mutual friend in Canada what I was doing. These were not taken for a DIY and there are literally 4 but it shows you what I mean about no need to smother the inner panel with deadening. All you are wanting to do is to stop the metal from vibrating. Yes, the more you put on the better, but also the more you put on, the more weight you add. Bear that in mind too. Find a balance you are happy with. Those deadening sheets are failry heavy mate so be aware. I would compare my one pack to that of say almost 2 reems of printer paper, so in my case, I have the weight of 4 reems of paper stuck in my doors, roof and boot.

    IMAG0227_zps68a00abe.

    Speaker hole hasnt been treated yet neither have a few holes been covered up.

    IMAG0228_zps8c33793a.

    I put this on incorrectly - see the large gaps. This was my very first time as well so I was learning as I was going.

    IMAG0230_zps23ae3e08.

    Thats better, no gaps, all the way to the top of the door. If you do have to cut it, try to make them fit flush to avoid any breaks.

    IMAG0232_zpsfec97eb7.

    Speaker back in, I did put some around the speaker as well, just the deadening (bear in mind the deadening material is made to deaded sound, to insulate it, so it just makes sense. Its quite pliable, but watch your fingers, cause you will cut them. Like a paper cut on crack cocaine. I also blocked up the access hole to the right. Yes, if I ever need to access behind the door, I will need to remove that, but thats a calculated risk as in all the years of ownership, I have had no need to do so. I greased up the window channel and mechanism before I sealed it up anyway. Makes sense, you are already there and no harm is doing that even though it didnt need doing.

    @RogerH69, I will try to show you how I did my boot. Any metal which will vibrate will cause noise, the bigger the sheet, the more it will vibrate obviously. You have a bit section (the rear quarter panels, same on any car, saloon, hatchhback whatever) which vibrates through wind pressure as you drive and throws that noise straight into your boot which again, as you know, a big open empty space amplifies any sound. So you need to block that sound getting from those quarter panels into your boot. I will try to take my side panel off and show you how I did mine. Baiscally though, I covered the outer skin of the rear quarter panel the same as outer skin of the drivers door example, and then put more of the noise insulator foam covering the large gaping hole from the top of the rear wheel arch to the rear of the boot sill. Oh, insulate your rear wheel arch with the foam and deadening material too. Again, give me a bit of time, I will see if I can pull a panel off my car and show you.
    - - - Updated - - -
    Also, that foam is fantastic for sticking in between panels to stop them vibrating. I also treated the inside of the B pillars of the car too.
    - - - Updated - - -
    Also, that foam is fantastic for sticking in between panels to stop them vibrating. I also treated the inside of the B pillars of the car too.
     
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  17. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    Thanks. What I'm gonna do then is to get some deadening and foam to do the whole boot. Not a big cash outlay, but it should make a difference and let me know what I'm in for if I plan on doing the doors and floor. Where in the boot should I put the MLV ?
     
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  18. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    I didnt put any MLV in my boot to be honest, its not really exactly flexible and obviously your boot is full of curves. Put deadening in your spare tyre footwell, on top of the wheel arches, outer skin of both rear quarters, and cover it all with the insulator foam. I didnt cover the bottom of my boot with anything other than the deadning material. To be honest, can't remember why I didnt but I remember the fella at that store advised me against it but I can't remember why.

    IMAG0599_zps649c4175.

    A full sheet there, its a bit bigger than an a4 piece of paper

    IMAG0600_zpsdec5cade.

    IMAG0601_zps53591348.

    10mm, not 12mm

    IMAG0602_zpsc53b2b4f.

    Pulled one of the boot panels away slightly, I wasnt going to disassemble the entire thing, but to give you an idea.

    IMAG0603_zpseacee34b.

    On the right, is the MLV material that is OEM from Honda. That is covering the nearside rear wheel arch. You can't see clearly there but thats pulled taunt now as I put some deadning and insulator material under it and then covered it back up again. Can barely hear the rear wheels turning, there is probably in total 30-40mm of insulation covering them now... :Grin: Closer to the left, again, picture isnt clear, but around a quarter from the top, is a horizontal line, this is the top of the gap which leads into the rear quarter. Behind there is insulated same as the doors and them the insulator I used to cover the hole to try and keep noise away. Does it work? Truthfully, I didnt drive it between putting it on and not, so I don't know, but the rear of the car is definetaly quieter overall. just noticed that tear, hmmm,
    - - - Updated - - -
    Might be worth your time Roger to take a drive to that company and just ask their advice. I can only state what my personal experience is from doing one car, mine, and even then I made mistakes so I am by no means an expert or indeed skilled. I just got bored and thought I would try it.... :Grin:
     
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  19. RogerH69 Premium Member Club Supporter

    South Africa Roger Oxford, UK
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    I was thinking of doing that. They're not too far from me, so I was going to pop by them and ask their advice on how much materials they think I need, etc. Financials are still in a state of shock though :Laughing: so it may have to wait till next year, as I need to save money to go home to South Africa over xmas. I think I also need warm weather (or at least dry) when doing this.

     
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  20. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard Milton Keynes
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    Good luck mate, please feel free to correct me once you have spoken to them if I have got anything wrong so that it will help out anyone else if they see this post and are thinking about doing the same thing.
     
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