Engine & Gearbox Yet another petrol vs diesel discussion

Discussion in '8th Generation (2008-2015) [Acura TSX]' started by cocmango, Wednesday 7th Nov, 2012.

  1. cocmango New Member Getting Started

    I am a bit confused about all the discussion on diesel vs petrol for low mileage drivers and hope some of you nice folks will be able to clarify some things for me.

    Any resemblance to real persons, including myself, is certainly not purely coincidental:Wink:.

    Let's say you have £9000 to spend, are a low mileage driver (say, 7000 mi/yr) and want to buy a used Honda Accord, but can't decide whether to go for petrol or diesel. With this kind of money you could probably get a petrol Accord with some 40,000 miles on board vs a diesel version with double the mileage. So, upfront you would pay the same amount of money, but if you go the diesel route you get a car with more miles. However, given that Honda's diesels can swallow the miles without problems, I don't see the mileage difference as being an issue at this stage.

    With an average UK petrol price of 136.6p/litre and diesel with 143.1p/litre, and with the 2.4 i-VTEC EX having an MPG of 32 vs 50 for the 2.2 I-DTEC EX, the annual fuel cost difference would be ~£450 cheaper for the diesel (if you do 7000 mi/yr). The annual road tax for the 2.4 i-VTEC is £270 vs £170 for 2.2 I-DTEC, so diesel is cheaper by £100/yr, which makes the diesel costs lower by some £550/yr. Insurance should be the same for both versions. Assuming you want to keep the car for five years, this translates into an economy of £2750 if you go for the diesel, and you could possibly sell the diesel at the better price than petrol after these five years.

    Are there any other regular costs that I have not included here? Are the servicing costs significantly higher for diesel Accord than for the petrol version? I'm referring here to the normal servicing, not major issues with DPF, etc which may occur on the diesel (with the key word being may).

     
  2. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
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    Cocmango, it is precisely for the fact of the "may" that would make people think twice about getting the diesel.

    Also you say :-

    If you were comparing like for like then you would say something like "for the same mileaged diesel you need pay an extra £1000".

    Therefore that takes a £1000 chunk out of your comparison costs.
     
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  3. richsprint Account Closed. ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    I would say £1000 is a conservative estimate for a similar mileage diesel, maybe closer to £2k.

    Diesels are marginally more expensive to service, fuel filter etc, but not massively so.

    Also if the example car has done 80k miles rather than 40k, its going to need more parts replaced during the ownership period, dampers, battery, alternator. exhaust etc.

    Also will have more wear and tear, so body damage, wheel damage, interior damage, that you would need to factor in the repair off if its a fair comparison.

    A warranty would also be advisable on the diesel in case the injectors, fuel pump, DMF or turbo let go, so thats another £400 a year.

    The petrol models have less things to go wrong, and they are less expensive when they do so, and are cheaper to buy, so this offsets the extra fuel cost
     
  4. Primarycare Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Primary c Northampton
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    If my mileage was around the 7000 or even 10,000 year 1st Generation would go for sure for the petrol, diesel would end up costing you more over the term.
     
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  5. bobbybliss Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Netherlands Rob Heerhugowaard
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    Refreshing to see a diesel vs petrol debate with only rational arguments. Not about which is better.
     
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  6. bijomaru Premium Member Club Supporter

    United Kingdom Rob Swindon
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    At 7k miles per year I don't think you should go for diesel. I'm doing close to 25k per year now, so the 4 years have saved me £10 roughly on fuel. Haven't spent more than £3k on servicing, 1 alternator replacement and maintenance over that time. Calculates for me.
     
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  7. SayamaAccord Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    There's more to life than a few squid...test drive each and factor the experiences into your decision.
     
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  8. Nick Allen Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    What needs to be factored in is the well known issues of doing lots of short journeys in a diesel and the DPF getting clogged because it never gets the chance to regenerate, and in my experience the rather expensive procedures for topping up oil that goes into DPF to burn off the particulates its trying stop being thrown out the exhaust. Also at that time I can remember being very concerned about the Dual mass flywheels were prone to exploding I think due to the torque diesels put through them, it never happened to me but heard lots of stories.. Another thing I noticed about my diesel was when the weather was cold the fuel economy dropped off. I liked my diesel car but as I only do 10-11k miles a year the economics and the concerns just didnt add up... it was 55 plate Volvo S40 2.0d
     
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  9. TheDarkKnight Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    The P v D debate is overly comples when it neednt be.

    Forget trying to calculate which is cheaper using fuel prices because variations exist and you cannot change that.

    As per the OP's example of 7k miles a year.

    If those 7K miles are lots of short hops and few long journeys - PETROL.

    If those 7K miles are mostly long journeys - DIESEL.

    You could feasibly do 30,000 miles a year and never go on a motorway - a modern diesel would still NOT be suitable as the DPF issues would rear their head because of the stop-start-short trips.

    If you're doing 30k miles per annum and the majority are m-way, then diesel wins hands down.

    One is not better or worse than the other.

    It depends what your usage is for and how you drive and how you maintain the vehicle.

    As a caveat, I will say this. As an I-DTEC owner, I clock up a lot of mileage (by my standards)> I have nver had a DPF issue, I still do lots of short trips and get 45mpg around town. Its how you drive that influences the performance/cost outcome for what car you select. Cars are fine, drivers are inherently not - we, not the cars are the problem for the needless P v D debate....
     
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  10. Primarycare Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Primary c Northampton
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    Spot on saja

    Agree with you 100% I think your right on the money with that post.

    My old A6 was a well pampered motor wanted for nothing did over 130k from new with me I drive sensible and did much of its 130k on motorways but being an Audi it still let me down on numerous occasions.

    I expect and am getting better reliability out of my accord again doing long trips. MPG is not as good but it has one gear less and is a 2.2 and an older car bought as my first venture into Honda. I know there is lots to go wrong with diesel but same could be said for petrol to. Your right there is no right or wrong its what fit the situation. I remain convinced also that reliability is as much down to driving style and maintenance as anything. Unless your car is from VAG group... :Smile: In which case you pays your money and takes your chances and may you have god on your side as your going to need him :Smile:

    In the future if my situation changed i would be just as happy to drive a petrol as i am my diesel although I may miss the torque a little for a while. 8th Generation will be my next buy just remains to be seen if it will be back to an estate or stick with a saloon.

    Again great post bud.
     
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  11. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    I will get you in a 8th Generation If I have anything to do with it.:Whistle:
     
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  12. Primarycare Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Primary c Northampton
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    CJ I would have one tomorrow if finances permitted.
    Unfortunately expensive solicitors and wifes 40th birthday pressey wiped me out :Sobbing:saving now though and waiting to see where work will take me next year then its just a case of petrol or diesel saloon or estate but to be honest I like them both.. I can find not one single design thing I do not like about the 8th Generation it, plus would look much better next to the wifes Subaru than my 7th Generation as it makes my car look like a matchbox toy size wise that is :Aghast:

    I honestly take no convincing on my next motor :Smile:
     
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  13. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Further to add even if you were to follow Honda recommended diesel servicing schedules and when compared to the I-CTDI, you will find the cost of I-DTEC parts is considerable lower and the mileage intervals on filters has increased. Overall servicing cost may be the same at the dealer for both diesel cars but if you did yourself you will find saving on the I-DTEC even using Honda genuine engine oil (DPF friendly oil)

    Now this where the enthusiasts and normal car owner who wants to go to A to B collide :Angry: The latter will want everything on the servicing scheduled halved as it their pride and joy and respect and love their cars as their own siblings.

    The A to B owner has no attachment to the car he\she got the sensible head and total cost of ownership hat on and everything is analysed from a financial aspect.

    Both within their rights have their servicing schedule as the preferred and definitive method and hell can freeze over and you will be still squabbling over it. One Caveat which cannot be ignored at any cost anyone who wants to own the car and plans to use the Honda recommended servicing schedule HAS to get the servicing done by the book and to the letter no delays on mileage or time elapsed between servicing ... bottom line no skimping (DO NOT get your wallet in vault)

    if you do you WILL get bitten and so hard and you will not know where to look and that is guaranteed. The enthusiasts will be :Whistle: and :Rolf: under his breath..I told you so.

    So which every path you follow be true to your belief and stick to it.


    PS don't even attempt to drive a I-CTDI using Honda recommended servicing schedules. :Blink:
     
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  14. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    I will still get you in a I-DTEC no matter what your budget is and the car will be mint. simples really ..you need to know the people who can get you that deal.
     
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  15. Primarycare Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Primary c Northampton
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    I take it back and will put the woodo doll away :Whistle:

    CJ U D MAN BRO..

    - - - Updated - - -



    All true, well said dear boy!

    I suppose I fit the bit over the top bracket, I stick to service requirements and change oil and filters every 4000 using only 0-30 sourced from AOC.

    You could argue thats over the top and defeats the object of diesel ownership if it all boils down to mere cost. I believe though you should never cut corners and sorry but 12k on one oil change is nuts to my mind ( at least in a diesel ) however will sit well with fleet managers.
     
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  16. RobB Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Or you could get a 7th Generation diesel and not worry about the DPF. It ain't got one.
     
  17. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    DPF to me isnt an issue AT all if the owner paid attention and switched on and was aware what to do then it will never been seen.

    Give your I-DTEC diesel some beans on the motorway occasionally and top up using the right oil and I cannot see it happening

    Saj is the living proof of it.
     
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  18. davemazo Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Hope you`re still looking out for one for me CJ :Friends:
     
  19. TheDarkKnight Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Thanks CJ

    I'l give owners one simple tip. I am not a mechanic or engineer.

    But the one trick that makes ALL the difference is using proper, Honda DPF-compliant oil. Without that, you're nowhere.
     
    Last edited: Thursday 8th Nov, 2012
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  20. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    I haven't forgotten mate, the cars I have seen are not worth starting. 90% of the diesel cars I have seen are ABUSED and tatty.

    I am waiting to find the enthusiast car and a clean car.