Off-Topic you've got to ask yourself a question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by jimjams, Saturday 5th Dec, 2015.

  1. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    You're thinkin' did he fire 20 shots or only 19 ? :eek: Now to tell you the truth, I forgotten myself in all this excitement. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and it'll blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk !

    Well ....it was "only" a 9mm Berreta PX4 Storm semi-auto with 20-round magazine

     
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  2. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
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    Excessive force ,crazy rosser riding without gloves complete and utter t055er.
     
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  3. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Gloves would get in the way when pulling a side arm.

    I had a 9mm semi-auto in the 1980's (mag held 15 rounds) and also a genuine 1917 Luger. At the gun club, they used to say that if you can't do it with one shot then you shouldn't be firing at all (btw I got rid of my guns after Hungerford, before Dunblane)

    There is another longer version of this on youtube where they say that the driver of the car was wanted for armed robbery and had been evading police for some time. A few times he's firing at the rear tyre and does hit it, which is good from a motorbike at speed. But even so ....a full magazine ...difficult to know whether the driver lived because the cop had emptied his magazine :eek: although having said that he never did fire at the driver during the pursuit (note also the "shield" erected in the back of the car).
     
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  4. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

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    SA police don't have stingers what if he shot a person on the side street by mistake. I am sorry Jim the security escort guys in London riding vfr1200 are heavily armed and they wear gloves.
     
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  5. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Yeah I agree that no-one will ever know where some of those 20 shots went, meaning as I say, that if you can't hit the target with the first shot, you shouldn't add more.

    Regarding armed police on motorbikes in London, correct me if I'm wrong, but they would never draw their weapons while riding, and AFAIK they carry weapons larger than a 9mm semi-auto pistol. If you have ever fired a 9mm such as that Beretta, you would know that it will be very difficult to get a gloved finger into the trigger guard, and indeed it will hinder the ability to fire.

    This is the same as the 9mm gun that I had in the 1980's, you can see how tight the trigger guard would be if wearing gloves



    CZ75.


    this is the same as the 1917 Luger that I had (aka artillery Luger because it had n 8" barrel and a clip-on wooden stock). I hardly ever fired it, but when I did, it was an amazingly accurate hand-gun, with a range of 1500 metres

    33193.
     
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  6. exec Premium Member Club Supporter

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    Seems a bit reckless him shooting during the chase, what was he exactly aiming at? the crims head or his tyres?
     
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  7. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

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    Hee haw like the wild wild west have to you seen the spurs on his riding boots.
     
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  8. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    yeah if it had been Harry Callahan (Clint Eastwood) he would have only needed 5 shots

    he did hit the tyres though, even though it took a whole 20-round magazine
     
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  9. ArcticFire-Account Closed Banned Getting Started

    Scotland Graham Scotland
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    1500m range? I can't believe that, especially not if being effective range.
     
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  10. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    There are several definitions of "range" and "effective range", I've copied the following from here FactorsOfEffectiveRange < Gunwiki < TWiki

    • Absolute maximum effective range: This the "this round is not considered lethal after crossing this threshold" distance. Neither of the other two common "maximum range" values will be greater than this. Purportedly, NATO defines this as the point at which the projectile's kinetic energy dips below 85 joules (62.7 foot-pounds). This is typically claimed when recounting that the P90's effective range is 400 meters on unarmored targets, as classified by NATO. It's worth noting that while the P90 looks neater than the civilian PS90, the extra barrel length increases the muzzle velocity and thus the civilian model actually has a longer absolute max effective range.
    • Maximum effective range on a point target: This is the maximum range at which an average shooter can hit a human-sized target 50% of the time. "Point target" is basically a euphemism for hitting a human torso sized area in this context. If this range were greater than the absolute maximum, the absolute maximum would be quoted (a non-lethal hit may be accurate, but it's not effective).
    • Maximum effective range on an area target: This is the maximum range at which an average shooter can hit a vehicle-sized target 50% of the time. In other words, this is the maximum distance at which it would make sense to open fire on a group or vehicle, etc. If this range were greater than the absolute maximum, the absolute maximum would be quoted (a non-lethal hit may be accurate, but it's not effective).

    Both of those pistols that I had could take HPP rounds (High Power Pistol) which is the 9mm "equivalent" of "Magnum" (not as powerful, but similar meaning). A HPP 9mm round down an 8" barrel definitely has a range of 1500 metres in the 3rd category above. I'd have to look up the foot-pounds pressure and weight of a 9mm HPP to work out the velocity when it leaves the barrel, but the point is that that Luger is an extremely good design, because all the power goes into the bullet (no gas escapes, unlike the other 9mm semi-auto that I had). It is also accurate because the barrel is fixed to the stock, again most 9mm semi-autos do not work that way.

    This is a picture of an artillery Luger with it's "rifle" stock attached, my one came with one of those


    ari08kolv.


    Obviously it depends on the skill of the user, but note that Simo Häyhä did not use telescopic sights on his Mosin–Nagant sniper rifle, and he killed a higher number of Red Army soldiers than the number of German soldiers killed by Vasily Zaytsev , who used a Mosin–Nagant with telescopic sights. So with good eyesight you could expect to hit a group of soldiers at 1500 metres, and wound at least one. The sights were calibrated up to that range, the rear sight raised up and rotated slightly to take effect of the trajectory of the bullet.

    edit: I can't find a picture of a rear sight from an artillery Luger (found several for a standard Luger) but I found this interesting article Shooting Far « hellinahandbasket.net

    which has a picture of a rear sight from a Mauser which had a shorter barrel than the artillery Luger and it was a 7.62 mm
    rear-sights-from-a-C96.
     
    Last edited: Saturday 5th Dec, 2015
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  11. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    hmmmm you know how it happens, you decide to leave a "google search", then you go back and hey presto you find what you were looking for ....although in this case, not quite

    the artillery Luger in the link below only has the rear sight up to 800 metres, but I could have sworn that the sight on mine was more like that Mauser one, though it advanced in steps of 100 after the 200 mark (which would have taken it to 1200, not 1500).

    1917 Red 9 Artillery DWM Luger 9mm

    anyway it was 25 years ago when I sold it, so it could have been 800, or 1200, or 1500.

    IMO with that "rifle" stock attached, at 800 metres a good marksman would be in the 2nd category of max effective range. I'll have to work out the muzzle velocity of an HPP 9mm, I dug out my spreadsheet of other muzzle velocities, and a .44" Magnum can take a max load of 1200 ft.lb energy, giving a muzzle velocity of 1300 fps (886 mph) to a 320 grain weight bullet.
     
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  12. jimjams Expert Advisor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    edit: saved myself the bother, it's all worked out on the internet these days, don't need spreadsheets LOL

    9mm Ballistics Chart | Ballistics 101
    44 Magnum Ballistics Chart | Ballistics 101

    HP muzzles seem to take about a third of the load that a Magnum will, but because the weight of the bullet is also typically about a third, the muzzle velocity is the virtually same (but the momentum is much less so a 9mm will lose speed more quickly through the air than a .44")

    @ArcticFire ....On that basis, 1500 metres does seem too far to have any accuracy at all, or impact. Thus proving that the internet it better than memory LOL
     
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