Boot floor - very flimsy

Discussion in '4th Generation (2015)' started by Eck, Thursday 12th May, 2016.

  1. Eck Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Found one, in my view very poor feature of new model and having owned multiple Honda cars this is the first significant complaint.
    I always have a full size spare in my cars - would not even buy a car if it could not carry one.
    With my new Jazz I got the full size wheel and tyre as the car is shod with for a good price as part of the deal.
    When picked up the car still had the spare wheel well filled with the tool tray/storage pockets moulding.
    When this removed and the spare fitted in its place the boot floor put back down into position some consideration of fitting my 'boot caddy' for carrying the dog was made.
    Even with that fitted with dog in place (only a 23kg Spaniel) it was apparent through the boot caddy floor that the underfloor was distorting.
    Removed the boot caddy and it was very obvious that minimal loads on the boot floor lead to serious distortion - so much that floor collapse could easily happen with a not very large load which did not spread to the underlying structure. Even a suitcase of the right/wrong size in the boot centre could cause collapse.
    I think when a 'space saver' is supplied there may be a tool holder moulding also supplied, this may provide some support.
    I am in discussion with Honda at the moment on this subject, will be taking the car back to dealer at Honda's request to discuss for them to also report back.
    In the meantime, have fitted 6mm ply with two straps that rest on the spare to provide adequate support for the boot floor.
  2. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    Hi @Eck that is very frustrating indeed could you take a picture of that spot without the plywood so we can all see this area.
  3. legend-ary Moderator Staff Team

    United Kingdom Legend The Big Smoke
    Yeah that doesn't sound very good. I can understand why the load cover is just a piece of mesh but boot floor being flimsy sounds a bit wrong.
  4. BB Baboonface Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    United Kingdom James Chesterfield
    Hmmn! Seems like a bit of a design oversight on Honda's part.
    Perhaps HK members will prove instrumental in finding a solution that could be offered...
  5. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    Can you make a video of the boot flexing so we see how bad the problem is @Eck ?
  6. Eck Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    My video skills limited, I will try and attach a 'word' document, or simply paste it in, see if it is visible to you all., did not work, here is text and added are photos in sequence
    The boot floor, a rough guide to its strength properties.
    Firstly, it is half, at least as thick as the car key fob;
    When a full size spare is fitted;
    There is a gap between the floor and the wheel, the gap is larger at the ‘front of the wheel well, i.e towards the car front, so difficult to photograph, but here is ‘rear’ gap;
    To level the floor a 6mm ply panel with supports to rest on the tyre looks like this;
    To measure floor deflection, - the ply wood out - in a bit of an arbitrary manner a bar was laid diagonally across the floor so that the ends were above substructure, a number plate was laid on the floor to give a consistant point of measurement;
    A depth Vernier with my old rusty hands as well as possible measured a datum size from the top of cross bar to plate;
    This measured approximately 1.023;
    My best guess at an accurate weight was to use my water wash filler with nearly 5 litres fluid in, therefore near enough 5kg placed in about the left hand third of the boot, not the worst position but as near to facilitating this test as possible.
    Deflection again measured;
    1.318. a difference of 0.295” difference
    Test repeated with plywood floor fitted, will not bore you further but deflection was insignificant, bear in mind the ‘soft’ materials being measured and the last time I used a very near is lost in the mists of time, still my RR apprenticeship Vernier though!!
    Anyway, if the load were nearer the middle deflection much worse, a suitcase fitting in the space could easily put more load on the floor.

    WP_20160512_006. WP_20160512_003. WP_20160512_007. WP_20160512_014. WP_20160512_012. WP_20160512_008. WP_20160512_009. WP_20160512_010. WP_20160512_011.
  7. legend-ary Moderator Staff Team

    United Kingdom Legend The Big Smoke
    Yeah the flex in the floor is very clearly visible in pics 008 and 010. It is baffling really, for a piece of material that is not even the size of the old GDs full size cover, why Honda choose to go with such a flimsy material.
  8. Eck Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    An even better home made solution from another forum - pictures attached, well made gives place for owners handbook and lock nut socket, self explanatory otherwise.

    Following conversations with Honda and my dealer I will further explain the very poor image that this gives of Honda when owners are putting in wooden DIY fixes, doing locally just now - does anyone have a direct address/email for customer services in Japan?

    IMG_4513. IMG_4514. IMG_4517. IMG_4515.
  9. Eck Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    I have further emailed Honda Customer Services on this subject - here is the text;

    I did visit my dealer for their view on the boot floor with a full size spare wheel installed.
    They agreed it was a problem but as Honda only provide a space saver wheel with a support for the floor there is nothing they can do to help me.
    I would like to firstly request you to supply me with an email address for Honda Customer Services at the headquarters in Japan. I do have a postal address but emails so much slicker.
    The reason I want this communication with Honda’s Headquarters is because I just do not believe that senior Honda personnel would put out a car with such an astonishingly poor feature.
    They would also be in my opinion alarmed about the extent of concern this feature is causing loyal, long term Honda owners.
    The extent to which this subject is being discussed online would also be concerning to them.
    I am attaching some excerpts from online forums that very loyal Honda owners use to showcase their cars, show modifications and generally be very proud to own a Honda. There are sections in one forum even talking about Honda powered lawn mowers, bikes, generators, is the feeling regarding owner pride in their Honda equipment becoming apparent?
    I have installed a ply board cover with re-enforcements on top of my spare wheel, see first attachment - my boot floor support.
    Second attachment is a screen-shot from an online forum – clubjazzblock fix. Several blocks of wood used. Comment on other member regarding purchase of new car a bit worrying also
    Third attachment is a word document with pictures of an MDF sub floor support which even makes a space for both the owner’s manual and the locking wheel nut. This is such a very well designed and made item that could be used as a template for production of a ‘proper’ moulded floor support.
    I really do not think that Honda want cars running about with wooden made up pieces installed by owners to varying quality standards.
    The image of a Honda car and the company itself is not best served by allowing this to happen.
    I respectfully request you bring this to the attention of more senior personnel in Honda UK and Japan, I would appreciate email addresses for myself to address them directly."

    I did also just receive the sales feedback form concerning my dealer and did include in the comments box my thoughts on this feature in the car, hoping that would also generate some interest at a reasonable level in Honda.

    And bye the way, the car is truly like a Honda should be with respect to finish, handling, some little differences, like when in cruise control when reset selected the re-acceleration back to speed is a little slower, but then I am not in a rush and simple 'manual' acceleration to around cruise speed not a hassle.Gear changing down mentioned before not a problem either 6-4 if need be easy and even 6-2 if required a corners useful too, first motorway trip yet to be made but coming up on Saturday on way to sunny Mallorca form rain at moment after a fabulous week - perverse weather!!
    FirstHonda and legend-ary like this.
  10. legend-ary Moderator Staff Team

    United Kingdom Legend The Big Smoke
    I think that is fair worded email that you have sent them. hopefully they wake up the sleeping UK officials and ask them to do something about it.
  11. Eck Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Low and behold - further looking elsewhere reveals the attached - also my latest email to Honda text follows;
    Further investigation concerning the boot floor looking online in detail overseas has revealed – Honda part no. 84550-T5R-A10, see attachments.
    Is this the item that will do the job?
    Can it be marketed here?"

    If it is I wonder about support on UK?

    Look at The spare tire goes missing

    floor - readable part no.. floor US price - about 36 pounds. the full size floor support.
  12. Eck Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Still conversing with Honda UK Customer Services - I won't bore anyone with the intransigence.
    Lo and behold - another finding I will pass to them - full size spare, floor support with toolkit - from India.
    See .
  13. Eck Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    The attached will probably be the last communication with Honda Customer Services on this matter though I will persue the Indian parts a best I can. Will also write to Honda headquarters when I can conjure up the self control to express my dissatisfaction in a reasonable manner.

    But I would ask all of those who believe this feature of the new Jazz is an awful way for Honda to present this otherwise extremely good (in it's class) car to approach their dealer and tell them. If it is a consideration in not buying a Jazz also tell them. Final answer, question.
  14. legend-ary Moderator Staff Team

    United Kingdom Legend The Big Smoke
    Thing is I think it has to do with fuel economy regulations and market demand. All specs in USA get a spare while in Canada they don't get it on base trim. India is a different market to UK with much much worse roads and it will be a commercial suicide to not include a spare wheel in a car sold in South Asia but then again everything but the top spec Civic comes with steel wheels. I doubt UK will tolerate that.

    What do I think? Well they should have atleast offer the option. But if they don't, it wouldn't stop me from buying a Jazz.

    I think you will have better luck ordering from USA then to get it from India. Maybe some one on FitFreaks can sort you out.
    - - - Updated - - -
    Reading your email they say they haven't received any other complaints. Surely a combine letter signed by numerous 4th Generation Jazz owners will provide evidence that this is not an isolated incident ??
    - - - Updated - - -
    Also just like it took them a while to accept that 2nd Generation Jazz aka GD was indeed suffering from bad specs of wheel bearings and gearbox bearings. Similarly they wouldn't put their hands up at the first reported incident and recall 1000s of cars to fix? Who knows they're already looking into it.

    Tough call really. I guess first year for a new model is always problematic. Oh and regarding GD they even revised front suspension two years into production.
  15. FirstHonda Moderator Staff Team

    United Kingdom Ed Wiltshire

    I think you've done an excellent job so far with your messages to Honda UK. Their response is very disappointing - but increasingly not that surprising.

    There IS a solution elsewhere in the world, so why on earth not explore it even if just for one customer? How much would it cost them to ship a part destined for India / USA / wherever even if just to satisfy one owner? That would be excellent customer service, 'surprise and delight' if you will.

    By contrast, what they are actually showing is indifference - and that's no way to maintain customer satisfaction or loyalty.

    I know this type of response probably isn't unusual across manufacturers, but Honda used to be different - or so we thought.

    Ichiban likes this.
  16. Eck Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Today went to dealer on another matter and they put in an order for the American Fit 'cargo floor' mentioned previously. The order was accepted with a delivery by month end. The spares man thinks that probably in a day or two it may be rejected as non UK stock. My next approach is through a relative in Canada and a garage - Haltons Honda in Burlington. Everyone should look at the line-up of Honda models available there, so different from UK.
    Will advise all on 'cargo floor' progress.
  17. Eck Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Got information from Canadian dealer - the floor support -'box assy' is to suit carrying a doughnut wheel as they call it - like our space-saver. So it would not do the job.
    I have written to Honda India to ask about the part shown in the You Tube clip referred to previously, this looks the exact part required.
    I have also written to Honda Headquarters Japan expressing my frustration with the intransigence of Honda UK to help and also pointing out the'fix' available from India that Honda UK would not even look at!
    I will publish my letter and any reply received from Japan when received.
    Ichiban and legend-ary like this.
  18. Eck Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Update - the US floor shown in previous reply - my dealer did in fact order one for me and verified it is for a space saver wheel, I had in fact cancelled the order but Honda system for some reason delivered it!!
    It also transpires that apparently Honda Customer Services have been in touch with my dealer concerning this matter now and asking what they had done for me - maybe the letter to Honda Headquarters in Japan has had the UK given a little nudge???
    Watch this space.
    BB Baboonface likes this.
  19. Eck Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Cargo floor spares. Cargo floor spares. Cargo floor spares. Finally tracked down from South Africa a part no. 84550-T5S-T30 - BOX ASSY., CARGO FLOOR.
    Put this to my dealer who brought it up OK at a cost of £104.52 (SA cost approx £52).
    Asked Honda UK for clarification on this part number and just got a bland confirmation that it exists, not what model for or any detail.
    The Honda UK world seems to be getting rather weird.
    Dealer gave me extract from parts system which I think shows the standard cargo floor, one for space saver wheel and the above which should be for full size wheel
  20. BB Baboonface Top Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    United Kingdom James Chesterfield
    Hmmn! Getting closer, it's number 10 on the diagram above?

    Are they able to order you one?