Suspension, Steering and Brakes Brake pad worn out?

Discussion in '8th Generation (2008-2015) [Acura TSX]' started by aznspidey, Saturday 5th May, 2018.

  1. aznspidey Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    Bought a used car and pads were replaced 20k miles ago. I've read on here of OEM pads typically wearing out around 30k miles. Recently, most likely due to hot weather, I've been getting squealing noise from rear left wheel (jacked up and free rolling). Since there should be another 10k miles (?) on the pads, I'm thinking maybe a dirt particle got stuck between pad and disc that's causing the noise? Is this possible or has the pad worn down to the indicator?
     

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  2. JockoT Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    It is not uncommon for a stone to get caught, usually between the disc and the back plate. Sometimes it is even a slightly bent back plate rubbing, If it is a stone, you can sometimes dislodge it by spinning the wheel in the opposite direction to normal travel.
    Pad wear is down to a number of factors. The state of the discs can affect wear, but the main criteria is how you drive and how hard you are on the brakes. As an old fart who seldom touches the brake pedal I can get 60 - 70K out of a set. Boy racers or budding Lewis Hamiltons will get considerably less than 20K
     
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  3. i-DSI Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    My rear pads wear out at 100k km (60...70k miles).
    But.... your's an AT! And that's where the difference is. AT cars always wear out their pads earlier than the MT boxes.
     
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  4. JockoT Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    Automatics are certainly a bit heavier on the brakes, since they have considerably reduced engine braking, but not as heavy as a heavy right foot.
    Anyone ever come across automatics with cruise control that change down if the overspeed on a descent?
     
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  5. aznspidey Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    What about the fact that there is no squeal when my foot is firmly on the brakes? Do brake pad audible indicators squeal constantly? Another odd fact is that while the squeal is intermittent, and when it's not currently squealing, steering from a slight right starts the squeal (progressive louder the more extreme the turn is), and turning back left silences the squeal.
     
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  6. i-DSI Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    That's normal. I have had to change already quite a few worn out brake pads on both our Honda's. It always starts intermittent, occasionally,... and in the end it does NOT go away anymore. Very annoying, but a good system. Last pads I changed was on my wife's Civic last week, rear axle. The squeeling didn't go away anymore and only 1 to 2 mm was left on the pads.
    On my Accord I have new discs and pads ready. The squeeling is there, but very light and occasional. Once it's constant I will start working on them.
     
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  7. aznspidey Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    As you can see from the photo, there appears to be a good deal of thickness left on the pads so I'm inclined to think there's something stuck between pad and disc.

    I guess only way to find out is to take the wheel off and the pad and inspect. I'll try rolling the wheel in reverse first, but I'm not hopeful it'll be able to dislodge anything as reversing the car would have done so already, right?

    I've ordered a torque wrench and axle stands, so I'll wait for them before taking the pad off. I guess it would be sensible to give it a bit of a sanding while I'm at it to clean the surface. Anything else recommended i should do?
     
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  8. i-DSI Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Don't fool yourself. The picture is taken from the 'non piston'-side. The other side will be worn harder, especially underneath, not on top. The picture shows the best and thickest spot of the pad.
    There's a reason why the sensor sits below and at the piston side.
    The squeeling noise comes 9 out of 10 times from the sensor, not from some dirt. If it would be a small stone, you would hear it all the time and will be clear from the sound that it's a stone in contact with the metal.

    Edit: why would you sand the pads? I thought that was only done if they're glazed.
     
    Last edited: Saturday 5th May, 2018
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  9. aznspidey Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    I just thought might be a good idea to "smooth" out anything uneven. Well, if it's most likely the noise is from worn out pad, I guess I should buy some new pads. I don't think the brake discs have ever been replaced in its 101k miles. Should I be replacing these with new pads as well? Best to go with OEM or aftermarket - any recommendations?
     
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  10. i-DSI Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    You should only change the discs if they're out of spec. My 4 discs are still original, and now the fronts are out of spec (thickness). Counter is now at 233k km. Measure them, they might be at their limits.
    Tips:
    1) Don't forget you might need a special tool (universal available) to turn the piston back in. On my Accord I could do without the tool (not easy). But I just bought a universal set last week for my wife's Civic. Only 40 euro for a complete set for all kind of brands. Makes the job very easy.
    2) Bleed the brake system. After changing the pads (turning the piston back in) it is definitely necessary.
    I always went for OEM. As well for Civic and Accord, and as well for discs I just bought as all the pads already mounted.
     
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  11. aznspidey Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    I've just been through the previous owner's paperwork and noticed there was a HDS vehicle inspection that noted the pads were around 35% front and 55% rear last November. Going through his records, it looks like he's gone through a set of pads every 2 years (20k miles) - replaced in 2014 (63k) and 2016 (81k). Sounds about right that they need replacing now in 2018 (102k).

    It also looks like the brade fluid has probably never been flushed in the car's entire 10 years and I think I've read on HK that it's a good idea to do so every 1-3 years? I plan on doing so after replacing the brakes. I've gotten hold of the Honda Service Manual (LHD) and the brake bleed sequence is:
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    I assume for RHD (where the main resevoir is on the opposite side), the sequence should be as:

    1438797_upload_2017-4-5_16-10-31.
    I've bought pads and discs for all wheels (OEM). Even if I don't end up changing the discs, I'll have them ready for when they do need to be changed. Also have 2L of brake fluid.

    For greasing, I've got Three Bond Premium Bike Silicone Grease and Bosch Superfit Brake Lubricant - I intend to use superfit on the pads & retainers, then silicone grease for caliper pins & brake hub - is this correct?
     
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  12. aznspidey Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    I've just finished changing the back pads today. I can confirm that the squeal was coming from inside rear pad. Is it unusual that the inner side would wear out quicker than the outside?

    For a newbie myself to car maintenance, I did find that some steps that were involved were not covered or described in enough detail so I'm going to write a detailed guide to help others.
     
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  13. i-DSI Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Hey, it is very normal that the inner side would wear out much quicker than the outside. There's the piston. That's why I said the photo you addes does not show the point where the pads are worn the most.
    The first (few) times you change pads, indeed, it is a bit 'thinking', but it's not that hard. Did you buy a rewind tool to push back the piston into the calliper?
    - - - Updated - - -
    That's correct, for the sequense.
    Grease: I use the grease that comes with the pads. Didn't need anything more than that.
     
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  14. aznspidey Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

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    Yes, I bought a generic piston rewind tool set. Comparing the condition of pads on both sides, I came to the conclusion that the driver's rear piston was seized. It was harder to rewind than the passenger side whose pads seem to be worn more evenly on both inner and outer. I popped the problem piston out of the caliper and cleaned it as best I could before putting it all back together. Rear brakes are a lot better now.

    Is there a reason for following the correct bleed sequence? For now, I've only bled the 2 rear brakes and not even in the correct sequence for the rear. I think I will wait until the front brakes need changing (very soon I'd imagine), before flusing the entire fluid in the correct sequence.
     
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  15. i-DSI Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

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    Yes, the reason is simple: if you follow the sequence you will get rid of all your old brake fluid (in the reservoir and the master cylinder) at the first wheel. If you start with the rear axle, all what's in the master cylindre needs to pass through the brake lines to the rear.
    I always suck as much a possible old brake fluid out of the reservoir with a siringe.
     
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