Backup Car Defiant's Accord Type-R

6th Generation (1997-2002) vehicle added by DeviateDefiant, Saturday 10th Jan, 2015

  1. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
    Here we go with Honda number 3. I've said many times before, that the car which first made me fall for Honda was the Accord Type-R, specially a Pre-Facelift in Pirates Black. Tonight, I brought just that.

    We're down to figures in the 800s now with how many are left on the road, they have tons of rust issues, and then like any other model, a set of common faults. Not to disappoint, I have a good chunk of those myself - but she's rescue-able with a lot of work, and like my two 7th Gens I'll be documenting the journey with lots of long-winded posts and pictures.

    Once I've had a chance to wash and clean the car, I'll get a good set of photos and start a proper garage entry. For now, let's give my first impressions.

    I like:

    You just cannot beat the original VTEC (read: no VTC) in the earlier Type-Rs, that massive torque serge is so addictive, the girl pulls around corners like it's nothing. While I've left my '07s log hanging at the moment, since the Wavetrac install and having gone to town with the ATR's OEM LSD, I wouldn't own another fast car without one. The high speed handling is insane, I caught myself taking tight turns at way beyond what I once would have considered "safe" - I'll have to watch myself with that, she's just so agile.

    I don't like:

    Issues aside, which I'll get to, there's two things I don't like. That's 5th Gear cruising RPM at 70mph (around 3,600rpm) which drones annoyingly, and the OEM Recaros - I just don't like bucket seats, I don't care how well they "grip" me, I'd rather have comfort and free movement. The 5th Gear I'll likely live with but work on I/H/E noise, and the Recaros will be coming out (and stored) likely replaced by 6th Generation SE Executive leather ones, together with door cards to match.

    First "Things to Fix" List:
    • Bulkhead/firewall rust, this one is a biggie that gets all of them eventually - @Rhys went through and partially documented it with his. I have a patch the size of a fist which is rusting, and a patch the size of a five pence piece that's already through.
    • Rear headlight leak/spare wheel water pool - kinda common for 6th Gens in general, the big shame about this is that it's to the point where there's already a lot of rust under the spare wheel - there's a bit of cutting and welding to do right there.
    • Belt noise - likely the tensioner, fairly common.
    • Oil leak - probably cam end seal, maybe VTEC solenoid, common.
    • Clutch - it's worn, it's old, the pedal is heavy, it doesn't have much life and it's getting stuck engaged partially at times - hard to say at this point whether the CMC needs replacing or whether a new clutch and fluid will do the trick.
    • Intake - the resonator is AWOL and something doesn't sound sealed, it just sounds naff as hell.
    • Suspension - some nondescript and varying noises under situations I haven't yet pinpointed, pandora's box awaits.
    • Starter - she's lazy, might be an earth, might be an ageing battery.
    • Front lip - it's scuffed, it's not secured properly.
    • Gear :tut: - it's some weird multi-colour metal thing that I don't like.
    • Thorough wash and clean - boy does she need it!
    ...and that's just from a 50 mile drive home at night, and checking out bits with my phone's flash-light :Laughing: She's got a fresh MOT as of last month, and you bet your :thumbdown: there was a favour done there. But, she was a cheap and I was expecting almost all of this.

    I've made this car sound like and a heavily abused dying girl, and that's because she is - but it's salvageable, some thorough investigation, time, patience, TLC, and let's not forget money, and we'll get this girl patched - probably... :Whistle:
    tUMi, dbrooks65, i-DSI and 4 others like this.
  2. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    Don't worry mate, we'll get her back to full health all in due time.
    Ichiban, Nighthawk and Nels like this.
  3. Pottermus Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    I genuinely had :thumbdown: ache for the first 3 weeks of owning mine and I put it down to the Recaro's. My cheeks are firm now and I don't have a problem.
  4. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    CH1 conditioning its a process you just have to deal with.. lardy @rses
    SpeedyGee likes this.
  5. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard T Milton Keynes
    Make that rust treatment a priority mate - once it grips, its like a cancer, just keeps on eating. Make that your first job (after a wax and photos) before it grips the car too hard.
  6. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    Cancer is the best terminology for rust, you can never eradicate it fully.
    Nighthawk likes this.
  7. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
    I'd say that's especially on an ATR, they're so prone to it which is why their numbers are already so thin.

    But yes @Nighthawk, I agree it needs sorting sooner rather than later but I want to nip the oil leak and belt tensioner as first things. The first, so I don't waste lots of oil on top-ups, and the second just to eradicate the sound and to help diagnose the others :Laughing:
  8. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard T Milton Keynes
    Thats why I chose that word specifically, it is completely accurate.... it just doesnt let go unless you catch it early enough and then you are in with a good chance.
  9. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
    Well I and @Nighthawk had a fun morning with the girl, and we already started to get stuck in. First off, let's add some more issues to the pile now there's light and we've had the front up in the air:
    • Frayed/oxidised earth cable - more on that in a sec.
    • Tie rod ends have extreme play - both inner and outer need replacing.
    • Front drop-links aren't dead yet and have little play, but they're on their way out.
    • Front calipers are grabbing unevenly and the discs are binding. Rear discs are completely shot - full discs/pads overall needed with caliper refurbishment and some stainless steel brake lines for good measure.
    • One I forgot from yesterday - rear offside door handle doesn't work, we've now torn down the door card and found the attaching part to the rod snapped.
    • The offside doors front and rear have bad corrosion at the bottom as the rubber seal has been compromised.
    • Another from yesterday, rubbing sound under full lock - at first we assumed this was just against the arch liner as the car is lowered (Tein Super Street), however this doesn't appear to be the case - I reckon we sort the tie-rod ends first as a process of elimination.
    • The nearside washer jet is clogged, more on that shortly.
    • In general, the under-carriage, cross-member etc. are actually pretty solid. I want to remove the wings at some point and check underneath, that could be a nasty one.
    • Alloys need refurbishing.
    • Boot badges are dull and aged.
    • Paint in many places is fairly thick and good to cut back, in others, caution is needed. Few general scratches by the looks of it, she's really not that bad.
    • A random disconnected coolant line blocked up by a bolt - to be investigated.
    • A further point on the clutch, the "partially engaged" sound I mentioned yesterday is almost certainly the pressure plate gone.
    • The sump has a nice dent in it, it's had a nice smack in the past, as a result there's a nice patch of rust but it's solid for the moment.
    It's hard to remember everything we found, but I'm sure @Nighthawk has some further thoughts. In general, I'm actually pretty confident about restoring the girl now - most of the important things appear to be solid. We still have the rear to examine at some point.

    Anyway, a couple of bits from today. Soon as the bonnet was up this morning, @Nighthawk spotted this beautiful mess of an earth:


    As I mentioned yesterday, the car had a lazy start. With the sheer state of the cable it soon became the first priority. We checked in with @Holdcroft Honda and the part has long been discontinued. So off we went to that place we all love to hate, Halfords, and grabbed a generic earth cable with two ring connections for a fiver, nay bad right?

    The ring pictured above on the OEM cable was simply replaced with the Halfords, and the other end we lopped off to length and connected to the negative terminal fixture:


    We also reused the OEM bracket for a clean finish, not 100% snug, but you wouldn't really know this was a Halford's job:


    The result? She starts perfectly and precisely, there's a first one off the list.

    Most of the rest of the day was covered pretty well in the list above, but we also went digging into the offside washer jet not working, as I had two new Jazz washer jets nozzles (original intended for my '07) we went about replacing them. A comparison between the parts:


    This was the result, nada. Tyro was being noisy in the house so he was also getting acquainted with the new car (and @Nighthawk):

    We went tearing down a little further, and found this little valve has gone bye byes:


    I'll be getting a new one ordered from HH shortly, but there's already quite the list to compile :Laughing:

    The next steps are a game of prioritising, off the top of my head: brakes, tie-rod ends and the rear door handle. I also want the clutch sorted as soon as possible. There's a big list, so no doubt it'll be a case of just keep ticking them off until the car is perfect again.

    Finally, big thanks to @Nighthawk for his help today - I think we're both pretty up for spending more time on the girl together.
  10. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    Your ATR had HID lamps did you know that? The battery clamp need to securely on mate you have a few more mill to go down on the terminal. That is a weak contact.
  11. DeviateDefiant Co-Founder Staff Team

    United Kingdom Leo Northants
    Yeah I know that man, their washer jets work fine :Smile:
  12. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard T Milton Keynes
    Was an interesting few hours - cheers mate and it was good to finally meet you and apart from being almost drowned by your dog, it was a good day.

    I don't think that was a coolant line mate, thats a vacuum hose line plugged up with an old bolt. We need to take a look where that is supposed to go, probably accounts for that slight suction when you take your foot off accelerator. Looking at that list, we did cover a fair bit considering the time restraints I was under.

    Need a picture of that firewall hole in the offside front wheel arch that I pointed out to you.

    In addition to your list:
    - Steering rack boots, they were both cracked so it makes sense to change them at the same time as the inner and outer tie rods.
    - Brake fluid flush (filthy dirty fluid)
    - Clutch fluid flush (filthy dirty fluid)
    - Entire brake overhaul as you already mentioned - front and rear discs, pads, lines and calipers (strip down and rebuild).
    - Front lip needs repairing and painting
    - Replace that handle - that part that snapped seems to be an integral part of the inner mechanism of the door handle. We need to find a diagram of how that door handle is assembled.
    - That windscreen washer valve
    - Your thrust bearing is making a noise, and that hardness of your clutch could be your pressure plate. I reckon a good bleed will help pinpoint the issue.
    - Tensioner pulley or belt noise needs looking into further.
    - Investigate EML

    As we were leaving Honda we saw a car in the parking lot which we both thought would please you sitting inbetween lots of Hondas.

    Upon seeing the earth cable in that condition, we decided that that was absolute priority number 1 before anything else was even considered due to fire risk, stopping on side of road etc. So, on our way to firstly Honda (part discontinued) and then onto that horrid high street store full of pimple faced employees.

    And yes mate, I am quite happy to help you out where I can with the suspension, body work, brakes etc. If you can get all the parts ready, we could whack a fair bit off the list in one day.

    Is she salvagable? I think so for sure. Just need to get ontop of that rust ASAP. All the other stuff is really quite minor, she runs smooth, engine is lovely and quiet at idle, couldn't hear the tappets etc.
    Last edited: Monday 12th Jan, 2015
  13. AndyB1976 Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆

    United Kingdom Andy Aberfoyle
    I can maybe help you with the rear door handle, mine snapped last week and was able to patch it using the same method I done on my front handle which has held up since May.

    There is no rod as such (like there is in the front handle) to push the mechanism, a brass plate is attached to the handle which pushes down directly on a lever (item 25, cylindrical shape lever looks like a cigarette stub in the image) of the lock mechanism.

    Item 23, look the the top right hand side of the handle, the brass plate is visible there however its not obvious in this diagram, it just looks like a bit of handle plastic


    Assuming the door panel is off ; to remove the handle you need to

    • remove the rods to the inner handle and lock button, and unclip them from the central holder,guide (item 8)
    • remove the childlock rubber cap (11,26)
    • unbolt 1x 10mm handle bolt - the front facing bolt (item 39)
    • unscrew the 3 screws on the side of the door, holding the lock mechanism (item 44)
    • carefully move the lock and rods inwards to the door, that should eventually reveal the other 10mm handle bolt - go through the childlock button 'hole' with the 10mm socket on an extension.
    • Door handle protector will fall loose (item 24,35)
    • wriggle and pull the handle out the door from the outside
    • look inside base of door, for handle part broken
    I had grief trying to move the lock and rods out of the way, I was very careful not to damage anything. If you have done this before you be ok, otherwise its trial and error.

    I need to go back and put the handle protector on, was getting dark and couldn't get in back in the fading day light.
    Last edited: Wednesday 7th Jan, 2015
  14. ArcticFire Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    I'd love an Accord Type-R as a second car for me but without a driveway I know it would just be a target.

    Love the murdering gloves btw haha
  15. Nighthawk Guest

    United Kingdom Richard T Milton Keynes
    Yeah, its the plate that is missing from the rear of the handle - the mounting point however of the plastic handle is actually snapped off and AWOL. couldn't find the piece within the door either and the weatherstrip had been already pulled back so can only assume the previous owner removed it/tried to fix it.