General Honda UK go to your Local Lexus Showroom and Watch and LEARN

Discussion in 'Lounge & Gossip' started by John Dickson, Saturday 4th Jan, 2014.

  1. John Dickson Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Hello All,

    My parents want to buy a new Lexus IS to replace their existing 2006 IS220d. They asked me to go along with them today as they said I know more about all of the fancy technical jargon car sales use.

    As you all know Lexus have recently just launched the new IS range. As expected, when we arrived at Lexus Newcastle, there were several examples of their latest new model outside and three in the showroom. I think this is an example of the old fashioned art (long since dying in HUK) of selling your products, you actually have to make some effort into demonstrating and promoting them - even when they are new you have to make some effort of a promotional push - HUK watch and LEARN! :telloff:

    Better still, I've learned that you can have (depending on what you want) a brand new factory-order Lexus IS WITHIN 8 WEEKS!!!!!!!!!!

    This is also from factory in Japan, where allegedly "It's no longer viable and commercially profitable to manufacture cars" (According to HUK)

    "Bu!!$h!t!" was the cry! Of course Lexus is not part of a large Japanese Company who also has factory in UK to protect :Wink:

    (As long suspected, this 5 month wait for a factory order Accord is not a reflection of the truth it is merely an obstruction deliberately placed in the way of Accord sales by Honda UK Gestapo to convert people to Swindon Wagons. An age old classic example of if you can't compete fairly then cheat. Swindon an inferior product to Japan therefore the HUK Gestapo brings out the box of dirty tricks against the Accord. I wouldn't be surprised if they probably sit on an Accord factory-order for three months before actually bothering their ar$£s to send it to Japan.)

    This was a lead time for factory order IS 300h F-Sport. It does vary depending upon which spec you order (obviously in line with demand for that particular spec.) but the worst case lead time was three months for IS 300h in red (similar colour to Honda's Carnelion Red).

    We went in my car and the Lexus salesmen were raving about my Accord. I joked saying that I nearly parked around the corner in case they threw me out the forecourt. "All Japanese makes are more than welcome" however they said. Imagine having that sort of banter with a BMW Salesman. They have about as much craic and sense of humour as their cars have reliability and quality! He couldn't believe that all signs are there that HUK is just going to give up on the Accord in UK simply because they can't be bothered. Which, let's face it, is probably the truth. The saloon/Tourer market is not dead otherwise why would Mazda, Lexus, Skoda etc... be ploughing millions into it as we speak. I read an article in AutoExpress (I think it was) recently about the new Passat. The article stated that after the Golf, the Passat is VW's second most important car and they manufacture these awful pointless SUVs as well. (Another hint of Bu!!$h!t from HUK do I detect here)


    The new IS is a fantastic car and I have to say that if the Accord does get withdrawn from the UK then my revenge will be sweet as my money will go towards another make of car on the list that has Lexus IS as a firm favourite.

    I would hate to leave Honda :Sobbing:but if the UK subsidiary of the Company who should be grateful for my money and years of loyalty (and resultant third party sales no doubt) want to bully and force me into a vehicle I do not want then the voting will be with my feet me thinks.
    Ichiban likes this.
  2. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    Lexus has deep pockets mate they are making a loss on cars sold here.They are just doing it for the prestige, Toyota will keep on bailing them to keep the premium brand afloat.
  3. John Dickson Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Can Honda not use some of the proceeds from Swindon Wagons to keep the Accord afloat otherwise it's a massive loss of face for Honda, never mind presence in a large and important sector of the market?

    What will the HUK management drive? Mexican built Jazz? :lol:
  4. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    You think Swindon wagons are flying off the shelves think again they don't mate !! have a look at this SMMT data from November 2013 New car registrations in November overtake 2012 full-year total | SMMT

    Look at the top ten at number 7 and number 10 two cars that the Vezel wants to complete with in 2015 .. which I personally think its too late these small high clearance vehicles would have done their course.

    Civic tourer wants the Focus and Skoda customers but will they jump to a Honda well No I can't see a complying reason to do so.. These stats don't lie Honda market share is hopeless to put it mildly.

    NOVEMBER% ChangeYEAR-TO-DATE% Change
    MARQUE2013 % Market share2012% Market share2013% Market share2012% Market share
    Alfa Romeo4620.293210.2243.935,3740.256,9630.36-22.82
    Aston Martin570.04500.0314.008480.048680.05-2.30
    Land Rover3,8062.383,7822.540.6351,6872.4546,0942.4012.13
    Other British570.04570.040.007350.038760.05-16.10
    Other Imports350.02580.04-39.668020.047930.041.13
  5. John Dickson Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Those figures are worrying. The Honda slump is frightening. Needs rapid reversal before they do a Lancia!

    Will the Civic Type-R and NSX help? They won't sell in massive numbers themselves, well probably not the NSX anyway but I think it needs more than just these two.

    Yes they will provide a pull factor to draw people into the showrooms but the whole range needs a shake up and revision and no I still do not think that this means or needs removal of the Accord. I don't think the Accord sales are a problem at all. They only wanted to sell 3,000 a year and last information I saw it almost achieved that.
  6. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds

    This will come across as a tirade or just my usual whinge and moan.. but this makes me so angry it hurts.

    You think that is worrying John here is the area for massive concern... Honda Europe have said that UK is the biggest customer for their products in the whole of Europe.. just imagine what the rest of Europe Honda's share is?? will that is easy basically not worth mentioning.. its in melt down..:Blushing:

    Honda Civic Tourer and Vezel are knee jerk reaction to the Sokda 1.6 , Ford Focus estate and Nissan Qashqai, Juke which are been delivered too late to Honda customers when their buying requirements would have changed.. Its so frustrating and disappointing to see such a poor product cycle being churned out at snail pace..

    Then Honda will command a higher price than the competition which makes it a hard sell... does the jo public care about Honda's heritage or pedigree when the bottom line is the cost of the car.You reckon UK public will buy these new Honda in the same qualities as Fords, Nissan and Skoda when they more expensive.... :ShelfShoot: So where are these brand new cars going to go?

    NSX and Type -R are just an exercise to get the enticement up in the brand which its been lacking for SO LONG!!, if the new Civic Type-R is a brilliant car then there can be a ripple effect to other cars. but that a BIG BUT
  7. John Dickson Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    This is a vey valid concern CJ.

    If you look at the UK figures and as you rightly say the near-non-existence of Honda in Europe today this is worrying. My question is why isn't Honda Japan asking some very simple probing questions - yes they will probably be very difficult for Honda Europe to answer! Now Honda Japan isn't daft so they probably are going over the figures in great detail and looking into this already.

    They need some rapid amendments to their whole process I think. Yes they are answering the Qashqai, Juke etc but it is too little too late. Nissan has had a 6 and 3 year respectively march on Honda.

    The question regarding answering the Ford Focus estate is more simple. Why did they leave that segment in the first place? (They did make a Civic Aerodeck around 6th Generation didn't they? Correct me if I'm wrong)

    Ford are proving excellently how you can survive nicely in all segments - Kuga, B-Max, C-Max, S-Max etc. all selling nicely but they have not destroyed their more "traditional" cars i.e. Focus and Mondeo - in fact a new Mondeo is due imminently I think.

    The problem with the new Civic Type-R is it's too late on the scene in terms of the Civic model cycle. Will the current Civic not have only two years at the most left by 2015? Then they will have the situation of selling the flagship model of a range that is now obsolete and has already been replaced as far as the run of the mill models go and you've then got the scenario of "I'm paying £25,000 for a flagship model that has already been replaced so my £25,000 is going towards something that is obsolete"

    Jo public is probably largely unaware of the Honda heritage now as they have been out of F1 for so long. Yes at the BTCC stand they have hoardings with the "Without racing there is no Honda" but it seems a little contradictory now as they have been out of F1 for so long. Yes that is about to change in 2015. Again it comes back to the lack of advertising and promotion of Honda as a whole.

    The current situation is worrying to say the least. Has this arisen purely due to the transfer of control form Honda Japan to Honda UK/Europe I wonder? Have Honda UK/Europe succeeded in demonstrating how inept they are?

    If we keep on going like this is it feasible we could see the end of Honda in Europe! :Sobbing:

    It all makes you turn the argument of the Accord being "uneconomic to sell in Europe" on it's head and re-word it to ask if it is actually uneconomic to manufacture at all in Europe when so little of your demand is there!
    Last edited: Sunday 5th Jan, 2014
  8. hedleyf Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Not good reading, quite surprised at Toyota sales not a lot better than Honda considering the size of the company and the amount of advertising they do, can it be now a new generation of buyers that are not liking the Japanese cars ? Seems the VAG group are doing just fine.
  9. Chunkylover53 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    I'm putting it down to brand image and price. The Germans obviously win when it comes to image and the budget brands seem to be doing very well too EG Dacia have done :tut: brilliantly by achieving 1.27% in a year.
  10. FirstHonda Moderator Staff Team

    United Kingdom Ed Wiltshire
    I hope this doesn't come across as too harsh, but for me Honda doesn't answer the critical "why?" question, i.e. WHY should I buy a Honda? For me, that means that Honda UK haven't got a clear brand strategy, or at least, not one that speaks to me or people that I know.

    All car manufacturers have loyal customers, but the key to long term success is to retain those whilst adding new ones. In order to do that the brand has to have an obvious place in the market, clear values, and a clear message. VAG have been very good at this with their VW, Audi and Skoda brands, but less successful with SEAT. The lack of a clear message filters down to dealers, and then to customers.

    Honda needs to decide on the "why" question fast, then communicate it effectively and just hope that, like SAAB, it hasn't come too late.

    Personally, I would use the Type-R and NSX launches to stress the engineering heritage then have a campaign to major on tangibles like quality, reliability, and standard equipment.