Suspension, Steering and Brakes My FR-V has negative camber on rear wheels, even when empty, and much more when laden.

Discussion in '1st Generation (2004-2011)' started by John D, Friday 6th Apr, 2018.

  1. John D Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    France John D Narbonne
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    My 2006 FR-V stands slightly negative at the rear, and even more negative when laden.
    These two photos are unladen.

    My normal reflex for a car like this (as in Passat estate or Volvo) would be to add Grayston Spring Assisters, even 'tho the car doesn't tow (never has). But the FR-V rides quite firm anyway, and the Graystons would lift the rear a bit, and reduce the travel of the suspension. The rear antiroll-bar has just recently been fully re-bushed and jointed, without improving the negative camber..

    Two questions: does an FR-V normally have negative rear wheel inclination?

    Secondfly, has anyone had experience of using Grayston Spring Assisters on one of this Honda type?
    Any clues would be much appreciated,
    John

    IMG_7760.JPG IMG_7761.JPG
     
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  2. HondaHeritage Moderator Staff Team

    slim london
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  3. John D Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    France John D Narbonne
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    Thanks very much for the link, very illuminating. I'm going to try my Grayston Spring Assisters for a start, they are already in my garage having not been fitted to an Avensis estate. If that doesn't reduce the negative camber, I think it will certainly control it better under a full load.
    Failing that, or if the ride is too firm, I'll get some adjustable top links.
    Many thanks for the shared wisdom.
    Disappointing to find that Honda can have inbuilt shortcomings.
     
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  4. John D Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    France John D Narbonne
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    I have run into a glitch while getting into the task of fitting the Grayston Spring Assisters.
    The rear right suspension has had un un-traceable knocking noise for a while, intermittently, and when I get close to the spring-assister task, the knocking is coming from the top mount of the coil spring.
    I foolishly thought it would be easy to get the parts to change this, but it has become more complicated, and more costly-looking. Attached is the rear spring diagram as a whole, and it seems likely that it's something soft that has worn away, like the part item 13 which is a rubber ring, or some bearing within the top fixing, like items 9 which is the rubber shock absorber moutning.
    Has anyone had experience of this on the rear, or ideas on where to source the parts?
    There's lots of availability for a front suspension top mount, but virtually nothing about the rear top mount.
    Any clues would be much appreciated.
     

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  5. HondaHeritage Moderator Staff Team

    slim london
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    on finding this wear i personally would replace the entire shock assembly and that way you have a fresh start pairs of complete units seem readily available
    replacing the worn smaller parts would probably then show wear elsewhere making more work and could eventually cost you more time and money in the long run
    replacing these units you will have new springs and new shock absorbers which may help towards solving your camber issuses

    https://www.google.com/search?q=hon...QsAQIQQ&biw=1680&bih=893#imgrc=HVBuB1_sb-NCWM:
     
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  6. John D Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    France John D Narbonne
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    Thanks for that suggestion, the product in USA (on the weblink) looks a good proposition but I can't find anything like that in Europe.
    Maybe if the car was a higher value, then perhaps I might be inclined to go for wholesale change, but my budget runs at a lower level than that, with a car of 12 years and a value of around £1000, so I need to dig around and find the rubber components which have deteriorated; the shockers themselves are fine.
    The main rubber components seem to be one ring at 52686S5A004, one at 52676S5A004, and two rubbers at 52631S5A004
     
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  7. HondaHeritage Moderator Staff Team

    slim london
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    i only used the link as a quick example but actually these are available worldwide
    your shocks and springs are probable well used and tired if you like the car its worth giving your suspension a new lease of life also safety is more important than saving money
     
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  8. jd1959 Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    Ireland Zack Kilkenny
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  9. John D Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    France John D Narbonne
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    Thank you jd1959, that is really useful, and the balance of prices and shipping costs is realistic. I'm very grateful to you.

    I really had spent hours wandering about the 'net looking for suppliers and was even lost with suppliers in Russia for a while, too long, actually.
     
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  10. Bones126 Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    England Dave Birmingham
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  11. John D Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    France John D Narbonne
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    Thank you Bones 126, good thinking. I think adjustable radius arms may come later if the new joints and the Grayston Spring Assisters don't bring her camber into reasonable line. I had the new Graystons "in stock" and have often used them on other vehicles which sagged, and I'm delighted by the spare parts performance from AMAYAMA who communicate very well, and have all the authentic parts, which are on their way by tracked courier from Japan, and the total including shipping is way less than I was expecting to pay in Europe. The AMAYAMA website was straightforward, too.
    Thanks to all, the Forum has again proven invaluable.
     
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  12. jd1959 Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    Ireland Zack Kilkenny
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    I've found that to be true, frequently they are cheaper than the local Honda dealer, but if it's an item that customs would be interested in collecting VAT it can work out more expensive than sourcing locally. Worth noting that some of the couriers charges for handling duty which you'll be charged on top of VAT can be extortionate. It's well worth checking with the local Honda parts department to see what they can do if you are ever looking for OE parts, about 1/2 the time it makes more since financially to buy from them.

    Hopefully it will sort your problem, it can always be a hard call on what is worth repairing on a cheap car.
     
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  13. John D Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    France John D Narbonne
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    Very sensible, thank you. With a car worth £1000 on the market, I always hope that it will manage to reach about 220,000 miles without excessive cost, and at 141,000 now, it does still feel quite young. I live in France and the cheaper parts just don't exist over here, which is why Eurocarparts have a French website but ship from UK; I've had parts from them which have been through 3 Airports, and they still only charge £4.95 for carriage, they are so keen to break into the French market. Honda main dealers in the UK are sometimes very effective, I agree, and their approach to clutch and/or DMF is fair, but neither of those aspects exist among French Honda dealers, who aren't interested in older cars.
    I'll keep my fingers crossed for import duty into the EU from Japan, and thank you, again.
     
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  14. MichaelG Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Ireland Gman London
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    Just to add my 2 pence worth on the camber issue, my '08 FR-V also has negative rear wheel camber that looks almost identical to yours with 95k on the clock. I've previously owned a Volkwagen Touran that also had negative camber on the rear, and I've observed the same on other similar vehicle types such as the Mazda 5 and Toyota Verso. I've seen some of those owners also complain of uneven rear tyre wear and I had to replace both my rear tyres on my Touran due to very bad inside edge wear after they had been on for 20k or so. Because so many similar vehicles have the same issue I believe there must be an engineering reason for that camber, and take the annoying tyre wear as just one of the known nuisances of owning one of these classes of vehicle.

    I wouldn't want you to buy all those parts, have them installed only to find you get a marginal or no improvement. Or even get a custom kit to eliminate the camber only to find the car's handling is badly affected. The manual states the rear wheels should be set at -1 degrees camber from memory so a slight negative camber is correct. That would of course increase with load I suppose. Perhaps your lovely Honda is actually ok?
    I dunno.
    As you were.
     
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  15. John D Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    France John D Narbonne
    18
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    Thanks for your interesting comments, MichaelG, I did wonder about just leaving it, but I noticed how much the negative camber became obvious when there was more weight in the back. This car is a six seater, so by gathering a couple of chunky mates one could have 200 kilos on the back seat. Or I might be transporting a bit of building materials, or wine bottles.
    What prompted me to act more seriously was the occasional metal-metal knocking from the top bush on the suspension on one rear side (driver's side curiously, not the side where the roadside drains have been). The entirety of bushes came to about £26 including shipping from Japan, and adding the Graystons will save me anxiety about overloading the boot, or that rather dismall walk towards the car from the rear when it looks to be standing too negative, and right on the edge of the tyres. Waiting for the parts, and then I'll know if it has all been worthwhile.
     
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  16. John D Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    France John D Narbonne
    18
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    I truly thought this thread was over, I have had a superb service from Amayama, but have stumbled at a simple stage of the repair.
    The lower mounting of the rear shock-absorber (which incorporates the lower coil spring mounting) is a bolt which passes through the bottom of the shockabsorber and into a captive thread at the far side. Ther pictures herewith show the detail.
    The bolt really won't come loose, even with a bar on the spanner, to the point where I fear I will shear it or break something significant.
    Is this a frequent problem?
    Has anyone any techniques to facilitate this, or is there a repair kit if the bolt or the support plates break, or distort?
    Any clues would be much appreciated, I am frankly terrified of disabling the car.

    Wanda rear lower susp mount diagram.JPG Wanda rear susp low mount (bolt head).JPG Wanda rear susp low mount captive nut.JPG
     
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  17. HondaHeritage Moderator Staff Team

    slim london
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    unfortunately the bolt has probably rusted / seized in the lower shock absorber bush
    you can try soaking it heavily with penetrating oil and use an impact gun in short bursts one way then the other but i fear this is not going to end nicely
    i have done this job many times ,i cut the bolt with a slitting disc each side of the bush remove the the shock and drill and tap out the end of the stuck bolt
    if available i then press out the bush from the shock absorb and press in a new one (if available )
    when cars get older the jobs can become a lot more involve and your home tool kit grows bigger
     
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  18. John D Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    France John D Narbonne
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    That's very good advice, a thin cutting disc does indeed just fit in the gap. And Amayama do sell the shock-absorber lower bush, and also the through bolt.

    Because life is not entirely straightforward, three of the requisite cuts have good access, for a small grinder. While the fourth is fouled by the exhaust pipe (can you imagine how rusty the bolts are on those joints?) which may prove "inconvenient".

    So I think I must take the method kindly proposed above, and trust to some luck with it, and no slip-ups where the disc cutter snags & runs amock. And I will be sure to spray some hot Waxoyl around afterwards.
    Many thanks to the wise folk on this forum, which makes Honda ownership as joyful as it ought to be.
     
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  19. jd1959 Valued Contributor ★ ★ ★ ☆ ☆

    Ireland Zack Kilkenny
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    A simple job run afoul of rust again. Good luck getting the bolt out :Rant:
     
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  20. John D Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    France John D Narbonne
    18
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    Thank you, I really do appreciate the knowledge shared and the support.
     
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