Engine & Gearbox need: engine oil pan replacement on i-CTDi pre-facelift

Discussion in 'Honda N-Series' started by romacalcio, Saturday 2nd Nov, 2013.

  1. romacalcio Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Germany Bubi Bremen
    Hi Guy,

    I did over-tight oil sump plug and caused the crack on a hole. A sump plug cannot be tighten anymore because of the crack and I am not sure about the thread conditions. It still need a wrench to tight the bolt in but not completely. :Frown:

    So, I need an engine oil pan replacement :Frown:

    My car is in Germany, now I found a used sump oil pan. It will be sent soon.

    I have both instruction of oil sump pan removal and installation for benzine version but mine is DIESEL!!!.
    I think it will be really difference.

    I am thinking about bring it to the garage, therefore is it a good idea to fix it temporary with J-B weld at the crack and some adhesive (e.g. Threadlocker ) to keep the sump plug until I reach the garage?

    or do the replacement by myself (of course with my friends)? this way I might need an instruction :Frown: what are all main parts do I have to remove?

  2. Topper Harley Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    From what i can remember the sump does not clear the subframe so you got to remove the side and rear engine mounts.
    Jack the engine up as far as you can.Also drop the subframe on the drivers side a bit. It's a bit fiddly.
    hondavtecr likes this.
  3. romacalcio Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Germany Bubi Bremen

    Thanks Topper Harley, I think I also need to take out the manifold, do I need any gasket for it e.g. liquid gasket?
    For sure, a pan needs liquid gasket.

    I think I will go to the garage, too hard for me. I might break something more if I do it by myself.

    If someone has an instruction, it would be really helpful for me.
    Last edited: Monday 4th Nov, 2013
  4. Topper Harley Senior Member ★ ★ ☆ ☆ ☆

    No need to remove any manifold.

    Maybe best to bring it to a garage to sort it for you.

    Yes you will need gasket sealer.
  5. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
  6. romacalcio Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Germany Bubi Bremen
    I did order

    1) engine oil pan (used) from someone in UK
    2) liquid gasket "Permatex Ultra Red"
    3) Perma-Lock Medium Strength Thread Locker
    4) J-B Weld

    items 3 and 4 are just for temporary fix, I will use that thread locker to keep the bold and J-B weld to fix the crack.
    Just until I can reach the garage. Curing time will be at least 24 hours before I pour the motor oil (0W-30 fully synthetic).
    The garage will be somewhere within 5 km.

    I will try to change the oil pan ASAP. Now I am waiting all items, I have to order them online.

    Today I just found a manual but in German. There are a long list of procedures, I will give it to a garage too. Authorize dealer is costly and they might refuse to use the used part.

    I am so exhausted today, I will try to translate the procedure to English. It might be helpful for someone.

    Driving Honda accord here is awesome, cruising at 160 km/h still consume ~6-7 litres/100 kilometers
  7. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    I will get your oil pan guide up in a few minutes. :Wink: watch this space.
  8. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    Removal of the oil pan. The guide isn't idiot proof it based you have a good working knowledge how the I-CTDI is held together and have a good mechanical and engineering knowledge.

    • I take it you have already remove the plastic splash shield.
    • Drain the engine oil.
    • Remove the drive belt. see this thread 7th Generation I-CTDi Drive Belt - Alternator Belt - Poly Belt Change
    • Remove the A/C compressor without disconnecting A/C line.make sure you don't bent pipes unnecessarily
    • Remove the lower torque rod (A), then remove the torque rod bracket (B).

    1 AOCUK lower torque rod removal.

    • Remove the both subframe mid mounts mounting bolts.
    2 AOCUK subframe mid mounts mounting bolts..

    1. Remove the steering joint bolt
    2. Remove tie rod ends
    3. Drain the Power steering fluid
    4. Remove the steering rack
    5. Remove steering gearbox from the subframe.

    Above steps are topics not step by step

    Remove the subframe stiffener mounting bolts (A).
    Loosen the two subframe mounting bolts (B) so they are about 30 mm (1.2 in.) from the subframe.

    3 AOCUK Remove the subframe stiffener mounting bolts.

    Remove the dipstick/tube (A) and O-ring (B).
    Remove the A/C compressor bracket.

    4 AOCUK dipsticktube  AC compressor bracket.
    Remove the transmission mounting bolts.
    Remove the bolts securing the oil pan.

    5 AOCUK transmission mounting bolts..

    Using a flat blade screwdriver, separate the oil pan from the block in the places shown.

    6 AOCUK i-CTDi oil pan.

    Once the pan is off you can use this opportunity to check the achilles heel for the I-CTDI and check for engine oil pump chain slack.
    Measure the oil pump chain auto-tensioner rod length. If the length is over the tolerance, replace the oil pump chain.
    Oil Pump Chain Auto-Tensioner Rod Length
    Service Limit: 8.0 mm (0.32 in.)

    7 AOCUK i-CTDi Oil Pump Chain Auto-Tensioner check.

    This guide any good for you ?:Smile:
    Badger and rayhoop like this.
  9. romacalcio Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Germany Bubi Bremen
    Thanks a lot!!! those are really helpful

    Now I also have to prepare a new power steering fluid, as far as I know it needs around 1.1 litres?

    is it a good idea to change the oil pump chain together?
  10. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    you will need over 2 liters for the PS fluid. since you have the sump off it will be advisable to check the both chains and if they are showing signs of damage then change them.
  11. romacalcio Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Germany Bubi Bremen
    I went through the manual seems like I have to have a new gasket for steering joint cover, seal o-ring for a dip stick if I want to change an oil pan. I could not find a part number of these.
    This Friday I will go to do the temporary fix it, my plan is to use J-B weld to fix a crack and Threadlocker to lock the drain plug.

    I am also thinking about using thread converter from M14 to M12 or M10, permanently fix on an old thread. So next time when I want to do the oil change, I will use a smaller drain plug.
    This solution will prevent me from another symptoms when dis and re-assembling a steering system. I just have to focus on oil leak. As far as I know, the oil temperature will be around 120-150°C. Therefore most of Epoxy and Threadlocker can withstand this.

    Anyway, I will contact a Honda service in my area for a quotation. My estimating price will be around 500€-1000€.

    I will give you an update soon.


    ps. my car is left hand version.
  12. Badger Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Derby
    Hi Romacalcio,

    I feel your pain having to go through this, I too have to remove my sump as I've lost oil pressure and fear my pump chain has snapped. :-( Thanks to Dr Ichiban I also now have the procedure I need... :Smile:

    Sounds like you're keen to do servicing yourself, so can I recommend you treat yourself to an early Christmas present and buy a torque wrench (if you haven't done so)? Almost guaranteed to avoid costly situations like this! I learned the hard way many years ago...

    Viel Glück!

  13. romacalcio Junior Member ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Germany Bubi Bremen
    Hi gentlemen, this is my latest update

    J-B Weld is work well but not 100% seal because I am so afraid to tight a sump plug. There are some leak at the cracked flange ( I have 3 cracks, bottom and both sides).
    A drop is around 1 drop per minute, I think I can fill the oil and drive for some distance.

    A used pan is at DHL Express hub Bremen, I still have to wait until this Saturday (second chance delivery, booked it manually). One funny thing about DHL Express (DHL group was acquired by Deutsche Post several years ago). Normally, If a package is delivered by normal DHL or Deutsche Post, it will store in a local branch and they are in almost every city in Germany. DHL express are in only big city and outside an urban area, it is good for a commercial client.

    Today I did contact a Honda dealer here. Price is 260€ for working, 350€ for a pan. I can use a used part but of course no guarantee.
    I will contact another workshop here to compare the price but I think it will not much difference, maybe ~100€ cheaper.

    Thanks for your recommendation Badger, actually I used a torque wrench for it but last weekend I just figure out that it is not function properly.
    I forgot a small wrench in a trunk and a car was already lift, so I used big one and a tolerance is too high + malfunction.

    Proper tools can prevent an accident like this. I will buy another industrial-class torque wrench. At least my next project is to change all brake pads and discs.
    Actually, next summer I am planning to upgrade rims to 17 inches. So I have to give up this plan due to oil pan replacement.

    I think tomorrow I will make a decision, probably to take a new oil pan or if someone has any suggestion it will be great too.

    Last edited: Monday 11th Nov, 2013