Engine & Gearbox Which reliability report. Suprising?

Discussion in '8th Generation (2008-2015) [Acura TSX]' started by Ray Ambrose, Friday 15th Mar, 2013.

  1. Ray Ambrose Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Ray Cambridge
    Large cars 0-3 years old Top 5 Volkswagen Passat (10-) 96.5% Honda Insight (09-) 96.1% Skoda Octavia (04-)95.3% Lexus IS (05-) 93.2% Toyota Prius (09-) 92.1% Bottom 5 Volkswagen Passat CC (08-11) 86.0% Honda Accord (08-)79.2% Citroën C5 (08-) 74.1% Vauxhall Insignia (08-) 71.4% Jaguar X-Type (01-10) 68.5%. Excuse the prefix Engine and Gearbox, couldn't find one for general car.

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    My Car has been faultless....apart from broken foglight and hazard warning indicator light. Am pleased with mine
    Last edited: Friday 15th Mar, 2013
  2. stueymalton Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Yeah that does seem surprising. Diesel, petrol, both ?
  3. TheDarkKnight Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Statistics, statistics and damn lies.

    "Which" are a bunch of amateurs, akin to AutoExpress and other pointless publications. Good for toilet paper I'm told...:Thumbup:
  4. earthsciencer1 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Bob Wetherby
    Have you seen the report and the reasons why it comes so low in the list? I might be tempted to invest £1 for their 30 day trial membership.
  5. TheDarkKnight Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    I'd save the £1 and buy something more useful like chewing gum than fund a lopsided report that will be laden with errors galore.
  6. Primarycare Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    United Kingdom Primary c Northampton
    What did vw pay them? vw reliable my :thumbdown:
    John Dickson and Ichiban like this.
  7. earthsciencer1 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    United Kingdom Bob Wetherby
    Sorry to ignore your advice TDK but I did "invest" the £1 because I am looking to buy a Computer Tablet and thought that they might give me a relatively simple explanation of what I can and can't do with one of these.

    The 2012 test report only covers the two Petrol engined versions but I assume that their user feedback relates to the Diesel as well. They list the most common faults as:-

    ECU 9%

    Engine - Other 7%

    Fuel system 7%

    Engine electrics - Other 5%

    Exhaust system 5%

    They say that 2% of cars had breakdowns with an average repair cost of £58.

    Pretty inconclusivereally as there are no details given of actual problems.

    I will therefore defer to your earlier comment about the £1, but at least I can have a look at their article on the tablets!

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    Not the Passat cc though.
  8. FirstHonda Moderator Staff Team

    United Kingdom Ed Wiltshire
    Fascinating to compare with other, similar, surveys.

    In the What Car? annual survey for 2012, Honda were most reliable brand for the seventh successive year (VW 20th). The Accord was second to the Subaru Legacy in the family car section, with the Passat not even in the top 10. The Skoda Superb was last.

    Hard to see how such results can be so different, but I'll base my buying on personal experience and the surveys that reinforce my own views! :Whistle: After all, most people read newspapers that reflect their own political slant, so why should this be any different?!

    Three VW's owned, one taken back and replaced as it was a shambles (electrical, mechanical and bodywork issues), one fine, and my last one with a total gearbox failure at 40k miles (replaced under warranty, but still). Know a couple of other VW/Audi owners who have had serious engine/gearbox issues with cars up to 4 years old.

    You just don't hear that sort of thing about Honda. At least I haven't up to this point...
  9. stueymalton Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    2% with average cost £58 sounds pretty decent to me. can't imagine vw being better than that.
  10. TheDarkKnight Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    @Earthsciencer LOL, no worries - suppose you could spend £1 on worse things!

    What makes me laugh is the "spread" of car ages that they have allegedly "tested". Their findings are no more accurate than the skewed data the EU provides for car fuel/MPG etc. I stand by what I said, this report is nothing but glossy toilet paper.
  11. John Dickson Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    I cannot believe this! All my Accords have been trouble free, sorry except for my current one which blew a side light bulb at 38,000 miles! :Whistle:

    Sounds like another VW-funded report. Although Which rule of thumb for a car to be good it has to be German. Everything else is just rubbish. :nea:

    Similar to Audicar (sorry Autocar) magazine although hats off to them recently for publishing multi-page article about he cars that made Honda great.
    Last edited: Saturday 16th Mar, 2013
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  12. i-DSI Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Belgium Aalst
    The report is about 0 - 3 year old cars. So why should any owner have to pay for a breakdown as Honda offers 3 year warranty? Very strange.
    I can only imagine the breakdowns were caused by lack of maintenance, or not following the contructor's advice for maintenance?
  13. Jay2512 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    Even if the car is under warranty I would imagine the owner would still have to cover the cost to have the vehicle towed away..... i.e AA breakdown cover (£39 per year).

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    I am always skeptical over reliability figures, working for a large engine producer manufacturing the highest number of industrial diesel engines in the world we routinely have to look at such figures but focus on a MTBF (mean time between failure) figures.

    In the reports above most of the information will have been gathered against not only failures but also warranty work completed on a car. Now although the accord is seen as bullet proof it has had its fair share of warranty work - DPF's, Speakers, Rusty sunroofs, sticking brakes etc etc. Although Honda are probably the best manufacture for no quibble warranty and good will gestures this will not help its reliability data based on such a lower proportion of cars manufactured vrs others.

    As an example, Honda make say 1000 Accords (any trim level) out of these 800 have a door speaker issue. Honda carry out warranty it gets logged as a failure and picked up in these type of reports. Now to us that's not a failure of the entire vehicle, it still drives ok..... but as said the way these reports work it misinterprets the information.

    Recently we had to produce MTBF figures for a customer on a particular large V-12 diesel engine, we did a snap shot over 6 month production of 600+ engines. Out of those identified 20+ warranty re-works that covered minor stuff as - incorrect control panel setting, weep from water heater seal, loose bolt on manifold guards and a few for oil seeping from cylinder heads (unfortunately this is due to customer running engines unloaded for an hour and then shutting them down to repeat the process 6 months later).

    So our customer was a bit surprised to see what it considered a high number of failures, however after reviewing all the data from warranty work we could identify that not 1 single warranty report would cause the entire engine to fail or not work as designed to do so.

    Anyway back to my first point, I am skeptical over the reports for reliability when not assessed over number produced. I know everyone gives the fords & Vw a hammering for poor reliability but when their producing cars at a rate of 10 to 1 Accord its only natural the higher production number will return more warranty/failure reports.
  14. RichT Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    I thought that Hondacare Assistance gave you recovery for the warranty period?

    Hondacare Assistance
    Ichiban likes this.
  15. Jay2512 Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    oh.... no idea about that.
  16. Ichiban Founder Staff Team

    England CJ Leeds
    Yes it does for the first three years. AA comprehensive cover with home start and all the other refinements .

    I have owned five new Petrol Honda never had to use them ever, fingers crossed will not need to. Diesel owners well you know the score after warranty no need for me to rub salt on open wounds.:Friends:
  17. John Dickson Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    When my Accord reached 3 years old I was contacted about extended warranty and extending the Hondacare Assistance. Being an Accord I quickly decided it wasn't worth the cost as it won't go wrong anyway so I won't need either. It's as good as the day it was new.

    Wonder how many owners of 3-4 year old Audis, VWs and BMWs can say the same.

    Diesels were reliable until they decided to do two things. 1) Make them perform like petrols and 2) Make ever stringent emissions legislation which the diesel could never meet without massive amounts of technology and filtration, which is often the cause of any problems; not the engine itself. The basic diesel engine is bomb-proof. I reckon Euro 6, when it comes in, may well be bad news for the diesel engine as they'll have to do something drastic to improve on the extremely strict Euro 5 regs.
  18. korky Club Member ★ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

    vw tractors

    My better half has a polo and it really is a poor car , today she even said there is always something going wrong with it, and she is incredibly biased and loyal to "minty" you couldn't make that name up could you she really thinks polo is named after the rowntrees confectionery she also said her sisters car never needs any money spending on it , its a yaris same year 04 , no mention about Hondas of course , unbelievably but true "Minty"" is the only car I've been caught speeding in , I was spending too much time looking at the rev counter trying to get some pace out of the uncouth little thing and not noticing the old bill hiding with a speed camera , l got away with a speed awareness course , I darent critisise Minty anymore , because she she told me if I do there will be no more lifts home from the pub when I am slightly inebriated .
  19. SpeedyGee Administrator Staff Team

    England Speedy Birmingham
    Has she not been in or driven your car Korky ?
  20. ArcticFire Club Veteran ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

    Scotland Graham Scotland
    My biggest concern about these type of statistics is not only can dealers fiddle the figures but more importantly you don't know how the cars have been treated by their owners.